In Corn Mother's Basket - With Alicia Enciso Litschi

This week hosts Jennifer Taylor and Tava Baird continue their conversation with Alicia Enciso Litschi. Together, they follow the Corn Mother through the wild places between worlds—into Nepantla, the sacred work of reconfiguration, the wisdom of Little Deer, the living presence of ancestors, and the many forms of mothering that can meet us in community. Jennifer closes with a channeled musical transmission, followed by a message from Samael on finding our way back to communion.

In This Episode

• The wild as a force that crosses boundaries and reclaims what has been separated
• “Feed everything”: offerings, the edge, and the world rising through the cracks
• Nepantla, Coatlicue, and the transformational power of the in-between
• Barbara McClintock, jumping genes, and corn’s inherent diversity
• Corn Mother medicine dolls, sacred objects, and the basket that holds many beings
• Ancestors, the beloved dead, and restoring relationship across the veil
• Selu, Little Deer, and the balance of the Sacred Hunter
• A channeled Corn Mother song of celebration and blessing
• Samael’s message on mothering, grief, joy, and community as communion

Journey Through This Episode

00:00 — The Wild Crosses Borders

03:20 — Feed Everything

08:20 — Nepantla: The World Between Worlds

11:15 — Coatlicue and the Reconfiguring World

12:00 — Barbara McClintock and the Jumping Genes

17:15 — Corn Mother’s Traveling Medicine Doll

19:00 — Dolls, Memory, and Sacred Making

23:20 — Tonantzin, Coatlicue, and Finding the Missing Piece

27:30 — Angelic and Ancestral Balance

30:00 — The Dead Are Always With Us

36:20 — Selu and the Wisdom of Little Deer

40:00 — Corn Mother as a Bridge to Unseen Guides

42:30 — A Channeled Song for Corn Mother

48:00 — Dancing in Her Basket

51:00 — Samael: “Have You Ever Had a Mother?”

Musical Transmission

Corn Mother’s Basket
A channeled song and sound transmission from Jennifer, received in the presence of Corn Mother. Carried by voice, bowls, and the whispering sound of dried corn leaves, this transmission moves as celebration, blessing, and an offering sent outward into the world.

For Your Journey

Selu: Seeking the Corn-Mother’s Wisdom by Marilou Awiakta
https://www.fulcrumbooks.com/product-page/selu-seeking-the-corn-mother-s-wisdom

Continue Exploring

Work With Alicia Enciso Litschi

•  Ancestral tending work, individual sessions, groups, and writingshttps://www.waywardcurandera.com/
• Alicia’s writings, including stories of Corn Mother and Guadalupe.https://www.waywardcurandera.com/soulstories.html
• Corn Mother Writings
  Stories and reflections from Alicia's journeys with Corn Mother. https://offeringsforcornmother.substack.com/

With Jennifer

• Private Soul Resonance Sessions, Reiki training, channeled sound offerings, and more through Amnivara
  https://amnivara.com/
• Healing music and channeled recordings from Jennifer, including opening song, “A Building of Community” in the Lilith Album
  https://amnivara.bandcamp.com/

With Tava

• LIlithian Day Magic Classes, workshops, readings, books, folk art, and more from Tava Baird
  https://www.tavabaird.com/
• Tava’s books, handmade folk art, poppets, haunted dolls, magical tools and more
  https://darkflowerbooks.etsy.com/

May we remember that we do not have to rejoice alone, grieve alone, create alone, or walk alone. There are many beings in the basket—and there is room for all of us.

Please remember this podcast is for inspiration, reflection, and entertainment only, and is not medical, psychological, or professional advice.

We are two friends sharing personal experiences and evolving perspectives as we learn and grow. This is not a substitute for your own discernment, inner wisdom, or qualified professional guidance.

Take what resonates, trust your intuition, and seek licensed support when needed, always honoring your own inner knowing and personal truth.

Thank you joining us today, you are a valued member of our tribe!  If you are enjoying the podcast, please consider telling your friends and sharing it on social media.  We would greatly appreciate your support in helping us reach others and spread our messages of worth, openness and exploration. 

Connect with your Hosts!

Tava Baird:   tavabaird.com or https://darkflowerbooks.etsy.com.

Jennifer Taylor:  Amnivara (previously Willow Ridge Reiki and Healing Arts)           https://www.Amnivara.com/

Transcript

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In Corn Mother's Basket: With Alicia Enciso Litschi

[00:00:00]

Jennifer Taylor (2): Hello, and welcome to another episode of Mystical Musings Podcast. We are continuing our amazing conversation with 

Speaker: Alicia Enciso Litschi 

Jennifer Taylor (2): And, um, as usual, I want to start you off with a song to set the energy for the conversation. And since we did not stop at this point during our conversation and have me sing, I am including a song from the Lilith album, that I have on Bandcamp called A Building of Community, which was channeled in collaboration with my ancestors and Archangel Michael. So I hope that you enjoy this, and then we will just start in with the conversation right where we left off

[00:01:00] [00:02:00] [00:03:00] [00:04:00] [00:05:00] [00:06:00] [00:07:00] [00:08:00]

Tava Baird: one of the things that you just said a few minutes ago that I absolutely loved was the idea that, you know, our lady crosses borders, that she is gifts- Mm-hmm ... that there isn't a boundary. And I think I get... I've gotten it several times. I will have people who realize that I teach Lilithian [00:09:00] magic and will reach out and say, "Am I allowed to reach out to Lilith if I'm not Jewish?"

And I have to write back, "Okay, first off, 

Speaker: Lilith actually, historians believe, got her start in the Middle East and predates the organized Jewish faith. 

Tava Baird: and second, you know, we want to respect everyone's culture, but we also need to realize that in setting up these sort of gate kept walls on the divine, that 

it makes it less possible for us to pass gifts back and forth. And that's one thing, uh, I'll need to read it on the podcast sometime. One of the very first times that Samael spoke about Lilith to me, it's... I don't know if you'd call it a poem or just a little piece, but he talks about standing on a hill, looking at a human [00:10:00] city, and waiting with great eagerness and anticipation for the walls to be torn down and for the wild to come back in.

And the wild, it's universal to us whether we're standing on a soil where grass comes up or whether we're standing in the desert or whether we're standing by the side of the ocean. The wild is everywhere, and so our divinity is everywhere. And so I've been making all these notes here going, you know what?

Samael's just started talking to me about, something that he wants done with my Lilithian students called The Great Feast, which is a gathering together where everybody comes to tell stories of their ancestors and their family, and they all bring food, a family recipe And it can be something that's ancient, or it can be something that, your mother used to make or your father used to make for you.

and that [00:11:00] at that table, we leave multiple places for, the dead and for our never embodied ancestors and all of those who influence us. and now I'm going, "There has to be a gift component to this." Like, there really does. so I wanna thank you so much for helping to broaden my perspective and, 

You've helped me understand my guide better, so. 

Alicia: Oh. Oh, that is so meaningful. And the feast sounds amazing. 

Tava Baird: I love it ... being people in a community, you know, when you sit down and break bread together, or tortillas, or whatever yours is, there's, there's so much history there. and when you eat with someone, that's ultimate hospitality.

And so the more feasts we can have th- where we talk about our [00:12:00] ancestors, you know, we're taking, we're enjoying being embodied, but we're also honoring the ones who aren't so. 

Alicia: Yes. You're reminding me, there's something that really, as I've been listening to Samael's messages that come through, and listening to your podcast and dialogue often referencing or comparing the or and the and- 

Speaker 7: Yes

Alicia: and the edge. 

Speaker 7: Yes. 

Alicia: So in my writings with Corn Mother, she repeats something over and over again to me, which is to... She's always saying, "Make offerings, feed everything. Feed the pavement, feed the flowers, free- feed the sacred places, feed the places that have been desecrated." Um, and then she says, "Feed the world that is coming up through the cracks of this one."[00:13:00]

Which feels like the edge, right? Yes, it is. It's like right there. And it's the and. 

Tava Baird: Yep. Yep. When you reach across, that is... Thank you so much for sharing that. Um, one of the things he's been talking about in lessons a lot lately as my students get deeper is he says, "First off, I taught you to see the or and the and, but you have to understand that if you're really doing and, eventually that encompasses or, because and is everything.

And or can be used- You know, it, it, if you go to order food for dinner and everything is and, no decision will ever be made. 

Speaker 4: Mm. 

Tava Baird: And he says our problem, you know, and, and/or is a decision process. We have to make those every day. He says the difference is when we live in or. But an or that is [00:14:00] informed by and gently held by the spirit of and in our hearts is where we create the most good- Mm

and where we use the most wisdom. And then there's a whole thing on bouncing back and forth between or and and, and how do you do that so that you can walk in balance along that edge between them. But I so appreciate you sharing that because it's true that coming up through the cracks there is, um... We haven't released it.

We need to at some point. There is a power of story recording that Keith and Jenn and I did, 

But, Jenn and Keith were bringing through the channeled song and the music, and we just let Samael roll talking about whatever he wanted to talk about. And he started talking about what it looks like to him when a human dies. And what was probably one of the most interesting things to [00:15:00] me about it is it was set in a cathedral or a large church, but the wild had come in through the cracks- Mm

and its growth was separating the mortar of the stones and had ripped off the roofs. and it was the roots coming back to reclaim the holy space. So there was still evidence that humans had built things there. There was still an altar standing there. But when you were in this space, it was this balance of what people had built to glorify God and God in the wild itself.

And I say God not to pick a particular gender on it, but the idea that, um, whether you say god or goddess, we're talking about that [00:16:00] whole consciousness connection. And so when you were talking about things coming up through the cracks, I was thinking of that reclamation of all the little shoots of grass or maybe corn reaching up and, and pulling down the things that made us think inside, outside, holy place, unholy place.

Alicia: Wow. That sounds incredible. What a powerful experience that must have been. 

Tava Baird: We'll, we'll get it out soon. Ah. We're, we're working 

Jennifer Taylor (2): on it. No, we really, we need to get that out. And one other thing that it reminded me of, y- I think in our emails, you had mentioned, Alicia, that there's this space in, I guess Mexican culture or, you know, belief system of

and I think it started with an N, that was that kind of border- Ah ... and someone who sweeps the [00:17:00] space. Oh. And it was just really blended with that possibility. Um, if there's any of that that you wanna share, 'cause I remember thinking, "Oh, my goodness. That sounds amazing," and the crossover was incredible. 

Alicia: I would love to. So, um, yeah. In our emails, uh, I shared there is a Chicana feminist named Gloria Anzaldúa. she's now ancestor, but she, took some of the indigenous concepts in Mexico, one of which is Nepantla, and then kind of riffed on it and created just, like, these amazing theories.

so Nepantla is the world between worlds, and so when we are between worlds, we're neither nor, right? And we're in this between space. And so this Nepantla experience, it feels like w- it feels to me like [00:18:00] collectively we are in Nepantla. Um, that we're- so much is falling apart. Um, and also so much is getting reconfigured.

and Gloria Anzaldúa would call it like Nepantla times, where it's also even our identities and, what groups are belonging is like, oh, it's all kinda... It's all shifting. So she created a whole set of seven stages called the stages of conocimiento, which is sort of like how we journey in our transformation.

And Nepantla is one of those stages, but the other stage is named after Coatlicue. And so Coatlicue is one of the primordial goddesses of Mexico that you might think of as beneath Tonantzin. So Tonantzin, earth goddess, and then Coatlicue might be even underground of the earth goddess, and she's more [00:19:00] primordial goddess.

Her name literally translates as "She of the serpent skirts," and so she wears a rattlesnake skirt, uh, and her head is made out of two rattlesnake heads. And, um, she's just this intense being. There's a massive statue of her in Mexico City at the National, Anthropology Museum, and she's just quite a fierce being to behold.

She, to me, feels like if... When I think of just, like, a rattlesnake skirt and rattlesnake heads, it's all movement. It's just, it's energy. It's movement. And in the stories of the Mexica, Coatlicue is on top of Serpent Mound, sweeping at the end of the old world and the beginning of the new world. And so for me, it connects back to the atom, where she's sweeping, so it's like [00:20:00] she's stirring up the dust that is reconfiguring.

The atoms are reconfiguring. And I have a- Practice ... I have a Corn Mother story that goes with that, if I can share that. 

Tava Baird: Ooh, yeah. Oh, yes. 

Alicia: Awi:a:ta would be like, "You d- you have to talk about this." Um- ... Awi:a:ta am- al- often gives me reading assignments when I talk to her, and she's like, "Now, go read..." She has me read these books and biographies of people, and she instructed me to read the biography of Barbara McClintock, who was a geneticist.

And Barbara McClintock was the first woman to win a solo Nobel Prize, and she was the geneticist who discovered jumping genes or transposons. And so before her work, if you ever did those, uh, grids like the [00:21:00] Mendelian grids in biology class where you kind of figure out what traits are inherited- 

Speaker 7: Yeah

Alicia: that was genetics before Barbara McClintock made her discovery. But it doesn't... You can do those grids, but it doesn't account for actual genetic expression much of the time. Um, it's like only certain traits really work that way. And so what Barbara McClintock discovered is that genes actually can jump out of one position and onto a different chromosome and turn off and on, depending on the environment and signals that might activate, sort of this mixing and matching situation going on that creates a lot of diversity.

And she did that by planting fields and fields of corn. She was devoted to corn, [00:22:00] um, and knew the great-great-grandfather. She knew every individual plant in her fields, and she knew who their ancestors were. and she had them all documented, and she did this for, like, 50 to 60 years, just planting her fields of corn.

But she made her discovery of jumping genes very early on in her work in the late 1940s and early '50s, and she was laughed out of the scientific community, um, because they said she was speaking too metaphysically about the corn. Um, 'cause she would talk about you just sit there, and she said you would get a feeling for the organism.

Right? She was... Corn, Corn Mother was talking to her. Corn Mother's like, "This is how I do it, the jumping gene." Um, and so no one took her seriously until 40 years later, and then she won the Nobel Prize for her, [00:23:00] for her work. 

Speaker 4: Wow. 

Alicia: But corn is 80 to 90% jumping genes, so she is this, like, radically diverse and wild mother who's constantly wanting to reconfigure herself. 

Jennifer Taylor (2): Wow. Oh, I love that. 

Tava Baird: It's amazing. 

Jennifer Taylor (2): What an incredible story. I love the jumping genes and the idea that corn mother is, you know, 80 to 90%, that corn is that, shifting and evolving- Yeah ... and adjusting, and oh, that's amazing. 

Alicia: The corn we get in the grocery store that is very uniform is very hard, takes a lot of effort to keep corn that uniform, uh, because she's really wanting to be mosaic and all kinds of colors and speckled and [00:24:00] Yeah

surprise. Yeah. 

Tava Baird: Yeah. Oh, my goodness. We're very lucky to have a lot of different varieties and things here, too. I was really surprised, uh, several years ago, my husband worked with a young man who was, um, over here from England. He lived near London, and, Thanksgiving was coming around, and he'd never been to a Thanksgiving 'cause he's from England.

And, um, so we invited him to come to our house, and he came in, and, you know, we've got, like, we're doing traditional Thanksgiving. It's turkey, and there's sausage stuffing, and there's gravy. He was so jazzed about the corn because he, he was like, "You have... Oh, I haven't tried this kind before." And we're like, "What are you talking about?

It's grocery store corn." You know, like, but it was, it was just funny. I had never thought about the fact that, you know, it's everywhere here in, in North America, but it [00:25:00] was more on... He was like, "You've the sweet kind." And I'm like, "What are they feeding you in the UK?" You know? But like, he was absolutely excited about the corn.

I thought that was very adorable. 

Alicia: That is great. I love it. We're lucky Awiakta would love that. 

Tava Baird: We're lucky. Yes, very much. Oh, my goodness. Um- 

Jennifer Taylor (2): we are definitely... We're gonna have to have you on, like, on a regular basis because I feel like there are so many things that we can learn, and there's so many ways that all of our paths cross-pollinate and mix and jump from one to the next.

And I love how you were sharing that, connecting with Corn Mother when you're having a hard time figuring out who exactly you're supposed to be connecting to- Mm-hmm ... or, connecting to, beings where there's been some dissonance and, that she will help you, to kind of jump and make those bridges and help [00:26:00] to jump from, one ancestor to another and weave new ways through.

Um, I just, I absolutely love that. I know. 

Alicia: Can I share... Oh. 

Tava Baird: Please, please. 

Alicia: Just this detail that evolved in this last retreat. So this is the Corn Mother medicine doll. Um- Oh, 

Jennifer Taylor (2): beautiful ... 

Alicia: that I travel with, that I, uh, received. She used to live on the altar of one of my elders for decades. and, I received her and I put her first under the altar 'cause I was like, "I don't know what to do with you quite," and she's in a basket, and then she ended up on the altar.

And then she's like, "I'm ready to travel." So she travels in her basket. She's like, "I was soaking up all the prayers." She's from my elder, Maria Elena Martinez. She's like, "I was soaking up all the prayers for those decades, and now I travel." 

Speaker 7: Wow. 

Alicia: So Corn Mother, in her medicine doll form, was [00:27:00] at the retreat, but what was amazing is that a retreatant brought a Brigid doll made of corn husk, and then another retreatant brought an Eastern European doll made of corn husk, right?

And so Corn Mother's like, "Look at how I have, um, shown up on the other side of the world." 

Tava Baird: Yes. 

Alicia: Yeah. 

Tava Baird: It's so fascinating. A- and of course, I'm a big doll magic person, so that right there made my month. Like I- I'm already right now going, "What is her hair made out of exactly?" Um, you know, is it wool? What is it?

Um, I make them and I teach people to make them for ritual, and um, I do a lot with helping people to make dolls specifically for their beloved dead and for, 

Speaker 4: um, 

Tava Baird: either as remembrance or, [00:28:00] also sometimes the person who is no longer with us wasn't able to have the send-off that they would have wanted.

Mm-hmm. And so, I've been working with Jennifer Jurlando at work- a workshop on that and that sort of thing. in another week I'm doing one on appreciation of the vessel and the body, and people are making, dolls. But I use, a Ukrainian technique, and what I was so surprised at is I spent all this time looking at documents I couldn't read that were written in Ukrainian but that had pictures.

And when I finally sat down, I was like, "I'm making a corn husk doll. Like, this is set up exactly like the corn husk doll," even though some are traditional dolls from Ukraine and others were dolls from, you know, Central and South America. And I was just blown away at how there's this sort of common [00:29:00] source, and similar to the way poppets are made in different places as well.

Really fascinating. 

Alicia: Yeah, it's incredible. Um, I- Can 

Tava Baird: I get you to hold her up just one more time? Yes, yes, yes.

She's so beautifully done, guys. You're gonna have to look at her on YouTube. 

Alicia: This is her basket that she travels in. And- And I 

Tava Baird: notice a lot of red ... a 

Alicia: lot of red. In, in traditional Mexican healing, red's often a color of protection. 

Tava Baird: Okay. 

Alicia: Um, and so yeah, she travels in her, with her, in her basket. Some people have sent offerings to me for her.

Um, she travels with her rattle and her feather, and she has a little Jizo. She travels with Jizo, who is the- Is a- ... Buddhist- Yes ... Buddhist bodhisattva who- 

Tava Baird: Yes ... 

Alicia: he travels between the realms. Um- 

Tava Baird: Yes, yes, [00:30:00] yes. Ch- uh, blesses children, correct? 

Alicia: Uh, he blesses children, and then he also ferries people between the realms.

So to birth and to death. So- 

Tava Baird: I love the tiny hat. 

Alicia: Yeah. 

Tava Baird: That is- The 

Alicia: little offering of gratitude- ... 

Tava Baird: phenomenal ... 

Alicia: for Jizo. 

Tava Baird: Um, oh, I spent, um, some time and took vows with a Zen community- Oh ... at one point. So when Jenn told me that about you, I was like, "Oh, my goodness. We're both raised Roman Catholic." "We both spent time in the Zen communities."

But look at her. I mean, her hands- Yeah ... are so beautifully done. Yeah, and she's got boots. With her little boots. 

Speaker 7: Yeah. 

Tava Baird: I mean... She's just amazing. She is absolutely glorious. W- You can feel that energy from here. 

Jennifer Taylor (2): Yeah, my heart is just... My whole heart chakra is just go- expanding and contracting, expanding and contracting.

Tava Baird: Oh. Oh, my gosh. [00:31:00] Mm. And look at the, I mean, the, the dress is so- Yeah ... beautifully made. Oh, good. There's the back. Okay. 

Look at this. 

Alicia: I don't know who made her, uh, because after...

Maria Elena, uh, my elder, is still alive, um, but she doesn't have the memory she used to. And, so when I asked her, "Who made Corn Mother?" And she just said, "Oh, we would always make, uh, corn dolls together. Mama would teach us." And that felt almost like the answer of her soul. It might not be the historical origins of, of this particular corn mother, but it feels like the soul truth.

Tava Baird: That is gorgeous. And it does, it looks like her hair might be wool 

Alicia: Yeah, it's a yarn- Is it? ... of some kind. 

Tava Baird: It's a yarn? 

Alicia: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Tava Baird: Oh my goodness. I could stare at her for [00:32:00] hours. Just beautiful Oh, thank you so much for sharing her 

Jennifer Taylor (2): Yeah. I'm so grateful for the knowledge of, Don Anzin and that deeper knowledge along the lines of, Our Lady of Guadalupe and also, um, the Coatlicue, I think, was that right?

Coatlicue, 

Alicia: yes. 

Jennifer Taylor (2): Um, I, I believe that she came in pretty strongly. I don't remember i- I don't know if it was in a session that I was doing or the, one of the last podcasts, but there was... I definitely had a... I was making these rattlesnake sounds with my mouth, and there was definitely, um, like, rattlesnake skirt, like a skirt that was just, I think, like, one giant rattlesnake wrapped around.

And there was all this really, primal energy, and [00:33:00] I feel like, I feel like she's come in a few times in the last week in different parts of sessions and things that I've done. And I would never have had any idea, you know, who that is, and maybe would never have had that connection because I, I w- didn't have that kind of series of one leading to another, and I'm, I'm so grateful.

I love the way that the universe works. It is just so delicious, the idea that, I have this dream with this number that happened to be, uh, what was it? I think the zip code- The zip code ... where, the miracle with Our Lady of Guadalupe. And now I, I feel like I finally know why the dream.

It's like this was what I was meant to be connecting with, and I think it really speaks to something Tava was mentioning as well about, ancestors. Like, it doesn't have to be your current embodied genetic history of [00:34:00] people that you're connecting with that are your ancestors. Like, I've had this really deep soul connection with Mexico and the lands there, and the, of 

I've had so many, like, memories of that, and feel so resonant with Mexico. And, you know, there's, I don't think there's any Mexican heritage if you were to do an ancestry.com kind of thing. But I know, you know, I know that's, you know, a lot of my... There's a lot of ancestor, uh, support for me there, and I feel like in this connection.

And I'm so glad that you, that you shared that, and then you asked, "What is your relationship with her been?" Like, since we had discovered it, I was thinking, "Oh my goodness." I, I, I don't think I really ever did anything with it. I just sort of moved on and then, you know, went on to the next thing. And having stopped and gone back, I feel like this huge piece that was missing has [00:35:00] clicked into place.

And she's becoming really fundamental to the work that I'm doing. And there's I think this balancing, this perfect balancing between the super high, um, angelic, you know, vibration of Archangel Michael and this really, um, deep-rooted, um, ancestor kind of just this... It, uh, it feels like this, this grittiness, like this just deep grit and substance of her that's coming in.

And, Coatlicue and also the connection with the stars and the connection of all these things, I just feel like... I, I just kept telling Keith, I was like, "I just feel like something has finally clicked right where it was supposed to be. And I'm so grateful that you shared what you had shared and have brought me this connection."

I'm just so grateful, and it's, it continues to be [00:36:00] just a magical experience the more I connect with her. And I'm really excited after today to connect more with, Corn Mother as well, because that was really incredible. 

Alicia: Oh. It's so, it's so, uh... It's like I almost don't even have words, because I feel equally grateful for everything that you have, brought to me and my family.

yeah, Jenn's really helping me and my husband with our daughter, who is a amazing being but also very porous and needing a lot of protection. and I feel like, I really feel like Corn Mother was, has been helping get me here, because I need the angelic realm. Um, right? I hang out in... It [00:37:00] just feels like she's like, "You need to balance it out," .

And so there's this incredible... It just feels like such a gift and joy, and I'm so excited for more 

Jennifer Taylor (2): likewise Oh my goodness I am so excited to keep this going, and I'm, I just love all that you've brought and shared with us today. This has been such a gift. And I realize I was like, I've finally been able to settle in.

I was so excited to have you on that I was s- giggling like a schoolgirl. Like, I realized at the beginning I was like, I could not hardly speak or make any good sense I was like, "I've got to calm down. I am way too excited about having Alicia here. I'm not able to really do my job as any sort of host or co-host at all."

Tava Baird: Isn't it lovely when you find someone who makes you giddy? I just love that. I 

Jennifer Taylor (2): love it. 

Tava Baird: I don't know if you would be interested, um, but at some point the [00:38:00] next time we have you on, if you're up for it, and it was probably growing up, south of San Diego that did it, but, you know, I paint and I do a lot of art, and I'm always surprised by the intensity of the color.

Like, I do lots and lots and lots of very colorful things. And I always kind of wondered where did this come from because most... Even when I do watercolor, which a lot of times is very natural for many artists, mine comes through looking like a box of Crayolas exploded. And one of my big influences, and I think it probably was from where I was as a young child, was there was always a lot of Day of the Dead art around me growing up, and I wrote papers on it in college.

And I was always fascinated by the color and the humor and the incredible, just the beautiful connection. And that's one aspect of Mexican [00:39:00] culture that I think a lot of people in the United States are at least a little familiar with now. But I would love to know more about ancestor practice at that time of the year in particular, um, because I think a lot of people are very interested in it.

And I saw such a, an influence on my own artwork from that aesthetic that I would love to know more. 

Alicia: Oh, yeah. it's such an incredible time of year, and I think I'm also learning and reclaiming what was more traditionally done for theirselves, 'cause I grew up on the Mexican border, and I did not grow up with Day of the Dead, because it's, like, we're probably just way too close to the United States.

but what I did grow up with was kind of the dead always being with us. And [00:40:00] my dad almost has this way of he, he has this incredible memory where he remembers everyone's birthdays and death anniversaries. And so it's almost like the way he tells time around the year, if he's like, "Today is the death anniversary of Uncle Henry," um, or, "Tio so-and-so," or, "My grandfather."

And it's, it's like the dead were always with us. And I was, um, brought up visiting the cemetery very regularly. Um, my dad would take us to the cemet- we'd go to mass on Sunday, and then he'd be like, "Dr- let's drive by the cemetery." We'd get out and we say hi to everybody, um, and then we'd go have breakfast.

And they became just woven into our world. 

Tava Baird: I would love... I mean, I could spend a whole podcast episode listening to you on that. I would love that, um, because I think a lot of us are separated from our dead here in the United [00:41:00] States- Mm-hmm ... either by geography or because, you know, one of the things that I've learned, in working with Jenni- Jennifer Jurlando and her death work is, you know, after the Civil War where they had to get, soldiers' bodies home, that's when embalming started.

And yeah, I didn't realize that. Oh, I did not know that. Um, that was one of the things I've learned from her is, you know, they had to get someone home who had died in battle, and they might have to cross multiple states, and so that's when embalming really started. And so that was when you had someone else washing the body and tending to the body that wasn't the family.

It wasn't the people of their heart. Mm-hmm. And since that time, somebody used a great expression, um, at the mock funeral that I was playing the corpse at this weekend. She said, "Death has become sanitized to us, where we're, like, kind of afraid we're gonna catch it, like, oh no." [00:42:00] And so very quickly in a lot of cases, the body goes right to the funeral home or directly from the hospital, and there isn't that- place of being able to honor them in private and, you know, wash them and anoint them and shroud them and all these things yourself.

And so we've lost this connection and been taught that we can't handle it, and then there's a, a fear there. And that was one of the things I remember when I was young, was so attractive to me in the little bits that I knew about the Day of the Dead, was that these are families going to picnic by the graves, and they're painting them bright colors, and they're

There is a relationship there that we have lost in a lot of parts of, of the United States. And I think it's a gift we can give [00:43:00] ourselves again. So if you wouldn't mind coming on at some point, I will be counting the days. 

Alicia: I would love to. That would be such an honor. Yes, I would love to. 

Jennifer Taylor (2): Yeah.

Thank you. That would be wonderful. And I, I love how you were saying that, your father just ... It was just a part of li- ... Like, they were just ... The dead were always there. Your ancestors were always- Yes ... around. And it, it reminds me of how Samael had been talking about how we tend to think that, like, we're in a room completely by ourselves.

And then if, if the idea of like that a ghost were there, we would freak out, and it's like you're in this constant sea of beings and energies all the time. ... Most of you just aren't able to see it. But you're not... You're already not alone in your room, you know? Right. Like, there's a lot going on.

And like, I li- ... You know, it's like that, that you grew up and that their entire cultures where that's just the norm, where it's like, well, of course. You know, of 

Tava Baird: course that's the case. Of course they're here. They come to visit. 

Jennifer Taylor (2): Yeah. 

Tava Baird: It, it- Yeah ... it [00:44:00] always is, um, fun when I do... I have a class called The House of Spirits that talks about Samael's view of different energies moving and what happens when we die, and that sort of thing.

And, I say... I always talk to them. Like, I'll sit down in class and I'll say, "And later on in class, we're gonna talk to the dead." And people will go, "Are we gonna go to a haunted space?" Like, because there's this idea that there are some spaces that are haunted and that, you know, 99%- Mm ... of the world isn't.

And I'm like, "Oh, we don't have to call anybody from anywhere. They're standing around you right now." And that's always a little jarring, you know, is they're like- Yeah ... and I'm like, "Every space is haunted." The word haunted literally just means visited by spirits. Mm-hmm. And we are visited by spirits all the time, so.

Alicia: Oh, I love that. Oh my gosh, what a great class to go to. Oh, that would be so fun. 

Tava Baird: So. 

Alicia: Yeah. I do feel like I need to say something about the deer. [00:45:00]

Speaker 7: Yes. 

Alicia: Um, I feel Corn Mother's like, "Talk about the deer." Oh, I'd love that. Um, especially because, so Awiakta's name, um, means Little Deer. And I am not Cherokee, and so it's not in some ways my story to share, but it is in Awiakta's book Selu.

Selu is the Cherokee name for Corn Mother, S-E-L-U. And ch- Awiakta definitely wants everyone to read her book, and so 

Tava Baird: um- Show notes. Yeah, we'll have to 

Alicia: put it there ... um, in her book she, so Awiakta's name means Little Deer. And in her book, Awiakta writes a great deal and talks a great deal about balance and sacred balance.

And Little Deer in the story that Awiakta shares is an, is a Cherokee, um, [00:46:00] story about really the, the sacred hunter and then the hunter who is out of alignment. And so the hunter who is out of alignment is one who does not get permission from the deer to take the deer's life, and so takes the deer's life without the deer's consent, and may end up killing more deer than is actually what is being given by the deer people.

And so when there is a hunter who is an out of alignment, Little Deer will track the hunter down and paralyze him to prevent him from causing more harm. Um, and so Little Deer is this this profound force of balancing. Um, and when I was listening to [00:47:00] your Sacred Hunter episode, it really felt like, oh, the Sacred Hunter holds, holds this, um, this discernment that there is death and that death does feed the people, but that it's done in balance, for life.

And so that there's something Corn Mother, Awi:aktah, um, always talks about Corn Mother in relation to Little Deer. 

Tava Baird: That is awesome. 

Jennifer Taylor (2): That's really beautiful, the connection And the balance and right relationship and yeah. And the idea then that you have that little, antler with corn mother on it.

Alicia: Yeah. That's ... I was like, oh my gosh, that's so wild. When you said that, I was like, "That is incredible." 

Tava Baird: That's[00:48:00]

amazing. It was a long time ago, and they were around for a long time. And one is corn mother and the other is a feather. 

Speaker 4: Wow. 

Tava Baird: And I- they have been in my possession. They're carved on antler. They've been in my possession for years and years and years. At one point, I even was like, "Did I purchase these?" And I, like, went on Etsy and stuff and couldn't find anything.

So someone must have just gifted it to me. Whoever you are, thank you. But they are both in my kit now that travels with me. And it's interesting that you were talking about her being the gateway for other guides to come through because a lot of people ... You know, when you do divination, the two questions you get asked the most are money and love.

But I do a lot of readings for people who are, leaders in, [00:49:00] in spiritual communities, and the question they ask the most often is, "What guides am I not seeing?" Oh. And so it's interesting to me that she's in here as that ... Now I know she's that bridge so that they can see- Oh ... who is trying to speak to them.

Speaker 7: Wow. Oh, I love that. 

Tava Baird: I didn't, I didn't really get that before- Yeah ... so thank you. 

Speaker 7: Mm. Wow. 

Jennifer Taylor (2): Yeah. And is there- Oh my goodness ... anything else that you feel like you're like, "I, I need to share this," Corn Mother or anyone, or just yourself wants to share? 

Alicia: Hmm.

I just feel such profound gratitude, um, for you both and for all the, all the, right, the energies, the beings that have woven us [00:50:00] together. Um, yeah, I feel like there'll be more, more connection, more unfolding. 

Jennifer Taylor (2): Absolutely. I feel like we'll be looking back and talking about can you believe... Remember that first time we had you on the podcast-

and we were just start learning and talking about these things? And 

Tava Baird: yeah. We're just starting to learn. Samael has a gesture he does when he learns from someone, that is to tap his forehead three times- Oh ... to show your words are now part of my teaching. Like, I will- Ah ... carry your information forward, and he does another one over his heart to show they've become part of his being.

Wonderful. So for your words today, we will say- 

Alicia: Oh ... 

Tava Baird: they become part of my teaching- Thank you ... they'll become part of my being. 

Alicia: Oh, and for yours. Oh, that's so beautiful. 

Jennifer Taylor (2): I love that. 

Tava Baird: Is it time for a song? 

Jennifer Taylor (2): I think [00:51:00] so. Wow. I'm like, wow, okay. Let's see what, um ... Or I know earlier, and it'll be interesting if the same thing comes back.

I was sitting here and just kind of anticipating the song, and there was this whole song that kept going on in my head, and it felt very joyous. It was like this just huge like tribe celebration. So it's gonna be interesting to see if the same thing comes through or now, like, we're in another current and something else is- 

Speaker 7: Oh

Jennifer Taylor (2): wanting to come through.

And I'm open also for, suggestions or requests if there's anything that feels like, or if Corn Mother's like, I would like this as a focus," I am open to that as well 

Speaker 4: [00:52:00] Hmm.

Alicia: I get, I get the celebration feel from her. I get the

There's just like sort of this phrase in my mind that's like there are many beings, mothers, sisters in my basket. There just feels like, yeah. 

Jennifer Taylor (2): Wonderful. Well, I will absolutely tap in and lean into that. It sounds just right. Thank you [00:53:00] [00:54:00] [00:55:00] [00:56:00]

So I realized right beforehand that I'm hoping you guys were able to hear that I have an instrument made of corn, of the, like the corn leaves that are dried that, make a certain sound when, when shaken And I didn't even put that together until right before I started to sing, and I was like, "Oh, of course."

[00:57:00] And it hit me as somewhere midway through when she was talking about the basket, like that there are many in her basket, and I was looking at all of the different elements that came together to make that specific circle. And it's, it's almost always just stones and then now stones with feathers ever since Denonzin has come in.

And I was looking, and I was like, there's a doll made by people in, Uganda. there are stones and things from all over combining and, you know, even different kinds of materials and things making that circle. And when you said that, it just... I, I just happened to glance and I was like, "Oh my goodness.

I feel like I'm dancing in her basket surrounded by all of the, uh, you know, all of the different [00:58:00] beings." 

Speaker 6: Really lovely So lovely 

Jennifer Taylor (2): That is so beautiful, and it was so... I felt just like su- it just felt like such a blessing, uh, your song. And then I couldn't tell that they were c- that they were corn leaves from the distance, but when you hold them up, it's like, oh, there she is. 

Yeah. 

Tava Baird: Really nice. Oh 

Jennifer Taylor (2): my goodness. It really did, um, f- it felt, especially the last section really felt like sending out blessings from Corn Mother, and with the ways that I was being called to use that.

And for those who can't see, it's essentially a bundle of dried corn leaves, bundled at one end and kind of fanned out at the other that I would shake. And oftentimes one of the w- the ways that we work with a rattle is the idea that there are seeds, like the seeds and the [00:59:00] bits inside the rattle that you're shaking, and you're sending and, like, casting these blessings out through and, you know, sending them out into the world.

And especially the last section of the song, those corn sheaves, to send out her blessings, and then the very last part was just, was, like, blowing across them and out- Yeah ... into the world. So it felt so much like this celebration and then blessing from her being sent out to everyone.

It was so, it was such a, a wonderful thing to get to experience. 

Tava Baird: I do have something from Samael if you are interested, that came through with that beautiful song. this is a really interesting, on a side note, topic for me because a few days ago, and Jenn, you've, you heard the Marco where I read [01:00:00] it, there was a message that came through from him where he said, "You have never had a mother."

and he didn't go into it, but he... I mean, there was, like, a sentence or two. But, um, it's interesting because now I believe he's talking to the listeners, but similar topic, and we're going more in depth. "Have you ever had a mother? A mother is more than one who brings you into this world with her body.

There is a difference between a gateway and true mothering. Some of you will answer yes, and some of you will answer no. "I have never had a mother," you will say. "I have always walked as an orphan in this world." In the sorrow of your isolated embodiment, you could not hear, yet [01:01:00] your seed has long been planted in her heart.

Should you turn, should you reach out, the mother of a thousand names is there in all her brilliance. You will wonder how you missed a star so bright. But how to approach, how to feel her mantle in your hands. Know that this is the way. Feast in community. Create with your hands in community. Give in community.

Read in community. Dance in community. Sing in community. Grieve in community. Rejoice in community. Community is communion. If you do these things, then you will [01:02:00] become part of her way."

So for those of you out there who said, "Yes, of course I have a mother. I'm here, right? I'm in a body. I had to have one," but you maybe didn't feel connected to the people who brought you through, or perhaps you felt connected at one point, but that connection isn't there either because of circumstance with someone who is living, or boundaries you had to set up, or maybe your mother is no longer in her body, and though you were close, you're starting to feel like it's harder and harder to reach out Samael's telling us that we can feel that feeling of mothering by [01:03:00] gathering to ourselves a host of people to feast and create with our hands with, and to join them in focus in giving, to read, to dance, to sing, and to make sure that they are part of both our rejoicing and our grieving.

We should not rejoice or grieve alone. And, um, I'd like to thank everybody who tunes into this regularly, and I hope that you know that we rejoice with you, and that if you are going through a difficult time where grief is at your side, that we are sending you energy to sustain you and help you walk out 

Jennifer Taylor (2): Absolutely.[01:04:00]

Oh. 

Tava Baird: This has just been spectacular. Thank you so much for coming on here and sharing it. I can't wait until you come back. 

Alicia: Oh, thank you both so much. I, I am so honored and thrilled. I'm thrilled. Yeah. 

Jennifer Taylor (2): Well, yeah, I cannot wait for the next one. that will be one of our most important tasks will be to get that on the books to get it going, and I can't wait to see all of the things that bloom from the seeds that were planted today.

Tava Baird: Everybody check out the links so that you too can reach out to our beautiful, beautiful guest, or as Samael referred to her, the holy woman who visits. Mm. Um, and we'll see you further on down this path. 

Speaker 7: Absolutely. [01:05:00] Take care. 

Tava Baird: Many, many blessings. 

Speaker 7: Many blessings, everyone.

Speaker: Reach out, people.