Episode 14 (Part 1 of 2): Hecate, Goddess of Boundaries: Keeping Your Energy in Balance

In this episode of the Mystical Musings Podcast, Jennifer Taylor and Tava Baird discuss the intricate topics of boundaries, balance, and worth through personal anecdotes and mystical experiences. Jennifer shares her recent spiritual encounter on Mount Weather and her struggle with self-doubt. Following this, Tava recounts her significant experiences, highlighting the importance of setting personal boundaries. Throughout the episode, they delve into insightful conversations with the angel (Seraphim) Samael, providing profound spiritual guidance. The episode wraps up with a discussion on the role of Hecate in understanding boundaries.

 Introduction to Part 1: 
 Jennifer's Encounter on Mount Weather
 Jennifer's Experience: Doubt and Spiritual Guidance
 Samael's Wisdom: The Concept of Resurrection and Rest
 Winter and Preparations
 Jennifer's Song: Echoes of Lilith and Samael's Contribution
 Discussion on Boundaries with Hecate
 Tava's Spiritual Encounter and Samuel's Intervention
 Energy Vampires and Psychic Boundaries
 Farewell and Teaser for Part 2

Simple Statements to support your boundaries and help you know your worth:

From Jenn, "I am surrounded by the white light of divine energy, through which only that which is in my highest good may penetrate (pass/enter)"

From Tava:  "Hecate, keeper of the keys, watcher of the roads, walker of the boundaries. Remind me of my worth."

Thank you joining us today, remember to LIKE and SUBSCRIBE to keep up to date with your tribe.

Connect with your Hosts!

Tava Baird: tavabaird.com or https://darkflowerbooks.etsy.com.

Jennifer Taylor: Willow Ridge Reiki and Healing Arts https://www.willowridgereiki.com/

Transcript

Quick note - Ai cannot seem to get the name 'Samael' right so just know there will be a million versions of his name and bizarre word combinations that sound roughly like it.  We couldn't fix them all...

[00:00:00] Jennifer Taylor: hello and welcome to another mystical musings podcast. you may have noticed that on the title of this, it says part one. And that is because as usual, we sat down with a plan of how this podcast was going to go. And then things immediately took off and took a different direction. 

 I had not even hit record yet and we were just talking and she was asking how I was and I started filling her in And. Things just started taking off and Samuel started helping me because I was having a challenging time and At some point, I thought, Oh my goodness, I should just be hitting record I think, while it's information that's being given directly to me, I felt like this is stuff that could help other people as well. 

And so I just hit record. And Then later realized, This is going to have to actually be a part of the podcast. So our conversation at the beginning is especially, casual and relaxed cause it's just Tava and I and Samuel and him. 

helping me out and then being in a particularly jovial mood today. So first, Tava is going to tell a little bit about my storybecause it is still so fresh that I really don't have the distance from it to be able to tell it well.  

 So I really hope that you enjoy this podcast you can laugh along with us and then hopefully learn some things, about boundaries and balance and,worth and you get to learn it through listening to some of our, opportunities to learn that as well. 

So we have graciously decided to give you an opportunity to learn from our mistakes. So I hope that you enjoy.  

[00:01:57] Tava Baird: so I'm going to tell you, I know this is going to sound a little strange. I'm going to tell you What happened to Jen? So she went to take her daughter to school this morning and on the way back was Rerouted over Mount Weather and if you remember from several podcasts ago Jen had been called to go up on Mount Weather to help Some spirits that have been up there and the energy up there that has been up there for quite some time There was a plane crash on Mount Weather many years ago And when she left the site last, it seemed like things were much improved and much settled. 

But in going over the mountain again this morning, he felt things reaching out for help once more. Now, Jen has had a lot of change and a lot of things happening in the last few, few days, at least to say the least. Uh, when Michael and Samael had both strongly suggested that she needed rest, but never one for turning away those in need, Jen decided she was going to go ahead and sing as she went over the mountain. 

So she allowed the energy and, uh, divine song to come through her for whomever needed it on the mountain. But then afterwards, started to think. The song felt strange. Did I do the right thing? Did I actually help anyone? And I'm doubt started creeping in about whether or not the song was beneficial. And so when she came to the podcast this morning, uh, one of the first things she said to me was I'm in a, I'm in a strange place. 

I'm, I'm in a very unusual place. And when I asked her to elaborate. She told me this story and she said, I'm, I'm really worried about the song. Was the song of use? Was it healing? And we asked Samael to come and end. And this is the conversation that followed.  

[00:04:17] Jennifer Taylor: So I'm just going to step in here for a moment to fill in a little bit more of the conversation that we realized did not actually get recorded. So  

 I'd shared my experience with, Tava and with Samael and then also was sharing that. I was really kind of disappointed in myself for, you know, still not being rested enough or recovered from all of the energetic shifts that were happening and for falling back into doubt, where I was doubting the messages that I was bringing through from Archangel Michael, I was doubting whether the song was good, I was doubting all kinds of things, like, did I not heal things the way that I felt I had, when I was called upon to do that before on the mountain and Samael came in and said, Resurrection is a process, singer, even Christ called out in doubt on the cross. 

 that really, gave us pause for a minute and thought, okay, if, even Christ was calling out in doubt, I need to be a little bit gentler on myself forhaving doubts and having periods when everything feels like, it's just falling apart or feeling like I haven't made any progress at all, and that got the conversation rolling and thinking also about the words that he used that, you know,Resurrection is a process singer and comparing my spiritual Growth and all of these changes and all of these shifts that are happening to like a resurrection and thinking of it as, really resurrecting, my true self and helping that to come out and remembering who I really am. 

So it helped me to recognize that I need to be a little gentler with myself and that this is maybe a bigger process than I'm giving it credit for. And so he asked me to sing the song for himthat I'd sung on the mountain. And he 

said, The song is good. It answers their cry. But you are also needing rest. Bringing through a response is lowering your defenses. Careful today not to bring in too much. Put up some defenses. And he advised me to send all of the energies that were still all around me and coming to me, that I'd opened myself up to, to send them to this place that he had instructed me to make in the garden with a crystal and programs there And filled with Reiki to provide a place for souls that I didn't really want, you know, surrounding me all the time, but for them to be able to go there and have healing. 

And so he recommended that I send them there. that I send them to Archangel Michael. And he also said, I will take what I can. You may send them to me as well. I will endeavor to help them settle. And when I was inquiring as to, what happened? Did I mess something up? Had I done something wrong? all these souls, it seemed like had been healed and everything was gone and it felt so much better up there, why all of a sudden did things feel so much worse? 

 This was his response. 

[00:07:55] Tava Baird: It comes in waves like a fire. It reignites after the steam. So my husband's brother worked for years and years and years with firefighters. And one of the things, that he talked about is how when firefighters go into a building, they're hosing things down with water. 

And a lot of times it looks like you've beaten the fire back, and everything looks calm, but then if there's still fire smoldering underneath, it will turn the water to steam, and once it's done that, places will reignite. So I think what he's trying to say is, The process that the mountain is going through and that the souls are going through when you were up there, you basically got everything kind of tamped down and you had water on everything and went, okay, we're good. 

[00:08:43] Jennifer Taylor: We're feeling good now. But certain areas may have burned off that healing for a time and sort of reignited or there may have been souls that moved to a different place. Oh, and then he says some souls are of the earth itself.Gotcha. So like. Healing of the  

[00:09:04] Tava Baird: Earth. Yeah, some are native persons. Some are wild creatures. Some is flow from other places. So I think he's saying that the, the movement of the energy up there, it's not like, it's not constant. Things are coming in, things are popping up and down. You probably did a ton with the, plane crash people, there's other things up there that now go, Oh, look, she's back right there, reaching out to, and, you know, because they, the place knows you now. 

And so you're getting some Reignition. Because now it's like, Oh, can you do this for me?  

[00:09:50] Jennifer Taylor: And also, it dawned on me with him talking about, the earth itself and wild creatures and things. I did a lot of connecting with Gaia yesterday and starting to channel  

[00:10:02] Tava Baird: her  
 

[00:10:03] Jennifer Taylor: yesterday. 
 

And I wonder if some of that, it's like waking up to all of these other things that need healing by having connected with her yesterday.  

[00:10:14] Tava Baird: Yes, the fear of winter is still present. They run to your arms for reassurance that the days will lengthen once more. So, Samuel, are you basically saying that, um, certain souls or certain entities or animals or stuff up there, they're worried about winter? Like, they have seasonal affective disorders. Like, they're worried.  

[00:10:45] Jennifer Taylor: Yeah, I was wondering, is it The season winter or metaphorical winter.  

[00:10:51] Tava Baird: Yeah. They are concerned with change. Some cannot see far. It is a natural process. Things pull in. Things pull apart. Hibernation is not an end. But some do not understand. Wait, are you talking like baby deer and babies, like things that haven't seen the cycle before? Remember? or apprehensive? Yes. So there's the changing of the seasons is happening now and it's becoming evident that the days are growing shorter and things are getting colder and this shift is causing a change in energy in the mountains? Yes. It activates the spirits. The mountain knows the singer. So we're just getting a shift, I guess, in season. And time and change, and as everything's going through this change, it's activating a bunch of souls, and he said earlier, some souls are of the earth itself, some are of native persons, some are wild creatures, some is flow from other places. This things are moving through those mountains during this time of change, it brings with it an apprehension, and so the mountains are reaching out to you. 

And wanting you to soothe them. But unfortunately, it's also a time of great change in your life. And you're supposed to be resting. And, and they're all like, can you can you soothe me? And so they want you to sing to them.  

[00:12:30] Jennifer Taylor: And so the song was soothing. The song is soothing and good, but it takes your energy. 

Yeah, it took my energy down. And by singing by tapping into that, and singing that it brought me it brought my energy down and opened me up to taking on Those souls then as opposed to just soothing them and keeping them. In their own space.  

Yes, he says, Like holding a crying child, sometimes you cannot help but weep. What a beautiful  

[00:13:07] Tava Baird: So the fear is not your own. Protect yourself. Rest. Send them to Michael. Send them to me. And I will give them rest. Isn't that part of an old Christian hymn? It's an old Catholic hymn.  

[00:13:31] Jennifer Taylor: I'll see  
 

[00:13:32] Tava Baird: if I can find it.  

I am before you always, um, follow me and I will give you rest. I don't know what it's called.  

[00:13:43] Jennifer Taylor: Um, it says, be not afraid. I go before you always. Lyrics.  

[00:13:49] Tava Baird: Yes, that's it. Be not afraid. I don't know if I've got the tune right. I go before you always. come follow me. I will give you rest. Samael, is that? He says, I did not realize I was alluding to something. 

Oh, it just reminded me. It reminded me of a Catholic song that we used to sing.  

[00:14:18] Jennifer Taylor: man. I haven't heard that song since I was probably, I don't know where that came from. He says it came from me. You said you weren't alluding to anything. Now he's just laughing and he goes, all things come from me. And I go, you are getting too big for your seraphim britches. He's actually joking these days, which just cracks me up. 

That's so fun. You know, I am so, so profoundly grateful. this was exactly what I needed. And it has not escaped me that the whole preparation for today, the whole thing we were going to talk about was boundaries, balance, and worth and 

all of it was managed to be wrapped up in this one event, And I kept asking the angels of this podcast to prepare us, to show us what it is that we were supposed to share And I can't help, but think that it's a combination of our two experiences in the last What, like, 48 hours? 

48 hours. And the messages that we've received about it. 

But I think the messages that we've received are probably very, potent for other people too.  

[00:15:36] Tava Baird: Yes.  
 

[00:15:37] Jennifer Taylor: And someone else  

[00:15:38] Tava Baird: sitting here going, I will watch, I will watch. So you're going to keep an eye on us? Okay, good.  

[00:15:45] Jennifer Taylor: Yes, we clearly need somebody watching us. And Michael was around me all morning and I have no doubt that he was, he was with me on there, but Yeah, it's funny. 

I thought about it too. Afterwards, I was like, you know, I was driving down the mountain and I was thinking, you know, I, I am tired and I was in that place where I, I shouldn't have done anything. And I think at the time I thought I was doing something almost protective by singing, because usually singing and channeling, that puts me in that place of things coming through and out of me. 

And so it kind of creates a, um, like a wave that nothing can kind of come back on. It's like that it would sort of wash everything away, but maybe the energy of the type of song it was, or maybe it was too late by the time I started singing because I'd already tapped into that, which is what made me sing. 

[00:16:42] Tava Baird: Yeah. It's funny you say that. Well, Samaya right now says the bridge does get worn by footfalls. So even when things are coming through us, There is a, you know, there is wear on us, but it's true. I, you know, I should've, I looked back like the next day and thought, how profoundly stupid was I to go upstairs and just see if anybody was there when I had no sleep, extreme stress. 

I'd eaten nothing, like almost nothing that day, but instead my brain went, Hey, look how easy it is to slip into a liminal space. Let's go upstairs. What was I freaking thinking? Stop repeating me. What were you freaking thinking? You don't say freaking, you're quoting me. Um, and uh, now he's just laughing. He was not laughing at me yesterday or the day before, so this is good. 

He's lightening up a little bit. I, there was a lot of this gesture in the last 48 hours. Lots of leaning and this. Yeah, for those who can't see  

[00:17:50] Jennifer Taylor: that, that's crossing, uh, that's crossing her arms and leaning.  

[00:17:53] Tava Baird: I am in, was in so much trouble. Yeah. As much as you can get in a trouble, in trouble with an angel, but that was a joke. 

You think he may have borderline made a dirty joke. That was, Haven't heard that before. For those of you who are so curious now, he said Lilith gets in trouble with angels. He's looking all smug. 

My goodness, you are spending a lot of time on earth these days, aren't you? If only you knew. 

All right. All right, we're corrupting the seraphim here. Too late, he says.  

[00:18:39] Jennifer Taylor: I'm sure we are not the first.  

[00:18:44] Tava Baird: No, you are not. Um, all right. Okay, now it's getting a little, uh, TMI with the angels. So, um, I completely forgot we were recording. I just looked up and said that.  

[00:19:01] Jennifer Taylor: And I think this is going to be an interesting conversation too, with regards to like how much they can do When we don't do our part as far as protection and stuff, there were things that came to me and that came from Michael that I now have a lot more faith in all of a sudden, I, I tell you, as soon as he started saying, like, send them to me and I will take them. 

I started feeling lighter and clearer and the creepy feeling was gone and I, started sending, sending them to Michael and sending them to the thing in the garden and I feel so much more clear and like, back again, I am so grateful. And all of a sudden now I'm like, I have faith in the words that came through me again. 

[00:19:47] Tava Baird: Yay! He also says they call some of us watchers for a reason. Have you heard of the watchers before?  

[00:19:57] Jennifer Taylor: I've heard it, but I feel like it was more in the terms of movies and stuff. I don't know that I have any real sense.  

[00:20:03] Tava Baird: Yeah, they're referenced in a lot of documents. But I can't remember, there's supposed to be a certain, I don't know if it's a clu I think it's sort of like a, now I want to look it up, here we go, because before I say anything, just to, because I don't know it all particular either. 

 a watcher is a type of biblical angel. The word occurs in both plural and singular forms in the Book of Daniel, 2nd century B. 

C., where reference is made to the holiness of the beings. Uh, the books of Enoch, 2nd to 1st centuries, oh, that's the one Samael's mentioned in. That's  

[00:20:42] Jennifer Taylor: what I was going to say. That comes up a lot.  

[00:20:44] Tava Baird: Yes, refers to both good and bad watchers with a primary focus on the rebellious ones. In the book of Daniel, and it gives the verses, there are three references to the class of watcher,  

The first book of Enoch devotes much of its attention to the fall of the watchers. The second book of Enoch addresses the watchers who are in fifth heaven where the fall took place. Oh my gosh! It said fifth heaven! It said fifth heaven! I have never, I have literally never seen this term other than talking to you. 

And I know it comes through your training. It's right here. Who are in fifth heaven where the fall took place. The third book of Enoch gives attention to the unfallen watchers. We use that the term watchers is common in the book of Enoch.  

 Okay, rogue watchers in the book of Enoch. Okay, here's a list of them. yeah, there's a whole thing here of all of these angels and fallen angels who are listed by name as either still being, I guess, heavenly watchers or there's a lot here. 

But holy cow, they referred to fifth heaven.  

[00:22:04] Jennifer Taylor: That is crazy. I had no idea that there was any sort of biblical reference to that at all.  

[00:22:11] Tava Baird: Oh my god. And then it says the story of the Watchers is shown also in the book of Giants. The term Watchers occurs in the book of Jubilees. A reference to the fall of Watchers from heaven is found in Hebrew in the Damascus document. 

The first epistle to the Corinthians talks about them. There's a ton of stuff. There they are. The Zohar makes reference to the Watchers and the Kabbalah. Oh my gosh. Oh, here's why we've heard of it before. In Kevin Smith's 1999 religious satire Dogma, the character Bartleby, played by Ben Affleck, is mentioned to have formerly been a watcher. 

Watchers also appeared in Supernatural. They're in a bunch of stuff. I made a brief, reference to them in Bone Witch because I knew a little bit about them, but I didn't know all of this. There's a ton of stuff here.  

[00:23:13] Jennifer Taylor: So since we have Samael, one of the big things that hit me when it was saying is, is asking him, is there such a thing as a fallen angel? 

[00:23:25] Tava Baird: Okay. Samael, is there such a thing as a fallen angel? He says, what do you mean by fallen? One who has left God will, I guess.  

he says that is a matter of opinion. I, by some definitions, have fallen and then he starts laughing. I am outside the definition of holy given on earth by over righteous men. Okay, are you saying that the term fallen angel is a term that we came up with as humans to differentiate? Ooh. He says to segregate, not to serve. Fallen is an or term. There are some who cannot be guided and tended to by your organized faiths. And then he starts laughing and says, Such as yourself, Umshallah , such as yourself, you would not listen or understand me. Are souls such as yours, unworthy of assistance.  

You have much work to do for the divine.  

Sammy, I slow down. I can't write this fast. You have much work to do for the divine.  

 walk in the dark places. I embrace those who do not think of themselves as divine.  

I reach towards the outcasts, the abandoned, and those who have been told that they have fallen, that they have failed. If they are the fallen and I am an angel, then I become angel of the fallen. No, I have not been cast away from God, but from the favor of men who wish to control. Good thing I brought a new notebook today. So I think he's trying to tell us that, um, If we set up, if we subscribe to this idea that there is pure good and pure evil, that there are good angels and bad angels, that's a very or mindset, and that There are souls here on earth who have chosen to incarnate in order to help bring us all forward. 

But when they look for spiritual help with this incarnation, and they don't fit into the boundaries that large organized religion has set up, they often feel abandoned and have been told that they failed, that they're, I mean, we know all the horrible things people to say, people say to people who don't fit in. 

In fact, they haven't fallen. They're perfect. God is everywhere. We're all one thing. It's all one thing. They've been told that. And,our standard bible that we use these days says that he is the king of demons. And so he is uniquely placed, well maybe not even uniquely placed, but he and certain other angels who have been described as, Not necessarily following the rules, i. 

e. you ran around with Lilith, that sort of thing, are in a unique position to reach out to these displaced souls. and help them see that they are divine. So case in point, me, I started off in the Catholic church. When I was a kid, I really, really wanted to be a priest because I could feel, I felt wonderful when I heard song in church. 

And I, we've talked before about how I used to imagine I had wings, and I had this drive to be empathetic and to reach out and to help people. But then the church said, so sorry, you're a woman, you can't do this. It didn't fit in there, and I went on a search to find where I could be of service. 

Technically, if you were to flip through the Bible today, there's a lovely passage that says, Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live, which sadly we know is a mistranslation of, Thou shalt not suffer a poisoner to live, but it puts me automatically in the devil worship category with a lot of people. And I know, because I've been protested this way, right? 

I might not feel, I might not have a place to go for guidance. Samuel can pop up and say, Hey, I'm an outcast too, let me guide you. And so the idea of a fallen angel is someone who doesn't fit into sort of what organized religion is saying is the only path to the divine. And he, again, it's a matter of people's opinion. 

I, you know, I think Jen and I are both obviously think Samuel is a good, a good being here with us. Um, but by many, he'll be just, yeah, he'll be described as a fallen angel.  

[00:29:18] Jennifer Taylor: Yeah, I'm, I'm so excited for this part to have come up and to have gotten to ask that question in particular, because it sounds to me like what he's saying is that You know, he's like, no, God did not cast me out. 

And my, my understanding of God is that what kind of God would cast anybody out would cast anything out. That is not an of God thing. That is a man thing. The casting out and the pushing away is not a God thing and my understanding. And so it is really, really bothered me. The idea of fallen angels or, you know, things that had been cast out of the kingdom of heaven. 

It's like, who would do that? What, what God that is entirely love would decide you have done something and now you're unredeemable and you're, you're not loved. And so the idea that really all of the language in him, you know, it seems like Samuel has said a lot of times, well, you know, it depends on who you ask as to what I am or whatever. 

And my, what my, the heart of my question has always been I don't really care what the throngs of men say. I care what you really are and what the truth is. And that is something that's way beneath anything that, men would have come up with, that's way deeper and more true. And so I'm, uh, I'm assuming then that what I just said, then it's true that of course. 

God would not cast anything out. It's, it's all about the all and the and, And I know he said there is nothing that is not God.  

[00:30:56] Tava Baird: Yeah. He says, even angels have differences of opinion. Look in the old books. You will see stories of disagreements, but, 

but no one hurled me into fire. 

[00:31:15] Jennifer Taylor: And now he's just laughing. So there are differences of opinion, there are differences of perspective, like you can have a, a family where it's like, you know, we all love each other, but we're not going to talk about politics because we know that, you know, Joe is, is really strongly in one direction and Sally's in a really in another direction and we're not going to talk about it, but we're all still a part of the family and we're all accepting that as the case. 

[00:31:46] Tava Baird: Oh, he's talking about Lucifer. Back up a little bit. Even angels have differences of opinion. Look at the old books. You will see stories of disagreement. But no one hurled me into fire, laughs. No one ripped Lucifer's wings from his body. That was preposterous. The OR mindset needs an enemy and so makes us thus.  

[00:32:19] Jennifer Taylor: Wow.  
 

[00:32:20] Tava Baird: Laughs. And I guess it's true, you can't have an OR mindset unless you have two opposing points. 

[00:32:29] Jennifer Taylor: Things in one camp or things in the other. If no enemy exists, you can't say, if you don't do what I say, I'm going to throw you to the enemy.  

Yeah. You  

[00:32:40] Tava Baird: have to have an enemy on the other side to create threat.  

[00:32:45] Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. And, and wasn't there a point in the. I feel like a point in history, and I think you've talked about it, when all of a sudden the concept of the devil came about, and that wasn't until men needed to control others, and it became a, well, then I can say this is going to happen to you if you don't come to church, you don't pay your tithe, you don't do what we say. 

[00:33:08] Tava Baird: Yes, then you are going to burn forever sort of thing. It's really interesting as you look at, if you actually go back and look at, um, different translations of the Bible and how things changed over time. There are lots of words that when the Bible was translated, there were actually, there's actually like five different words that they all just lumped under the category of hell. 

And it became, um, our idea now in our modern Bible of what hell and the devil are like. Um, for example, if you go back and read the early versions of the Bible and I, I remember having a children's Bible that was given to me for my first communion and there was a picture in it of the devil tempting Jesus in the desert and he's got these horns, right? 

Um, There is no description of Lucifer having horns. There, there just isn't, where, historians believe the horns came from was when, uh, the church was seeking to convert people, and I think I've talked before about the pagan horned god, right? You had a lot of scribes that followed this idea that there was the lord of the forest and he was often depicted with horns. 

Well, if you're trying to convert people away from one belief system and demonize their old god, what do you do? You make the demon you're trying to create look like their old god and go, no, no, don't follow him, come this way. And so that's how the devil got his horns. Uh, there's actually a really interesting. 

Concept one of the like, I think it's five concepts of hell. And I have notes on this somewhere. Um, in the hundreds of pages of documentation, I got sitting currently making my Google Drive not function that well. Um, there was in Jerusalem during the The time that Jesus was around a really horrible trash dump, a really bad trash dump that people would regularly set fire to trying to burn things away. 

And supposedly whenever people did this, it stank up half of the city. And people started referring to it as by this particular term. Like, Oh God, it's, you know, it's so bad in here today. It reminds me of, and I can't remember the name for the term. This, trash dump this smoking, horribly smelling, always seemingly on fire trash dump was very much in everybody in Jerusalem's consciousness because they were all dealing with it quite a bit. 

And it became a synonym for A horrible place, a bad place, somewhere that you definitely didn't want to go. That word ended up in the Bible, in the early writings of the Bible, as a place of, oh, that's just awful, let's avoid that. And later on, that became, when it got translated again, that trash dump's name was one of the words that was simply replaced with the word hell. 

And that's where we're supposed to get this idea of hell, that it's this awful, stinky, sulfur smelling, constantly smoldering place that nobody wants to go. And just for trivia standpoint, it is currently a golf course. They have covered it over, and so you could go visit. What apparently was the biblical idea of hell, but today it is a golf course, which is actually my personal idea of hell. 

So, um, It's still there, but if you ever get a chance and you ever, you ever just want a nice break from work, Google origins of hell and they'll go into all of these concepts, some of which were just very cultural to the Jerusalem area and how all of these concepts got mixed together and replaced with the word hell in our modern translation in the Bible and that's where we get. 

All of these, a lot of these crazy descriptions. and then, of course, you also have Dante's Inferno, which Dante is creating this whole different levels of hell and all of these different things in it. Um, there's also some wonderful articles online talking about the idea that hell is empty. 

You know, we always say that, oh, if you die, you're going to, I think a lot of people have this idea that you're going to zip up to heaven or you're going to zip down to hell. If you actually look at what the Bible says, hell is supposed to be empty. until Judgment Day. It's not supposed to be full of demons and people being tortured and all that stuff right now. 

It's just empty right now because Judgment Day hasn't happened yet. There are biblical scholars argue about what was actually meant by hell. In some old books, hell is described as simply a separation from God. In other places, it's described as being a concrete place. So, which is it? Is it a state of mind and a state of despondency and a rejecting of the divine? 

Is that hell? In which case, some of us are having hell right now, here on earth. Or, is it a place your soul is actually going to be sent to? Oh God, now Sam and I are starting to talk about stories and reading locations of consciousness with Okay, this is a whole nother rabbit hole that we're going to explore in the future. 

So I'm going to stop talking about hell right now, or we are going to end up in an eight hour podcast. We will circle back to this in the future.  

[00:38:56] Jennifer Taylor: Make sure that, Samuel promises that he will tell us all that information about it. Because I was thinking when you were saying that I was like, we need to just ask Samuel, which, which is it, or is it a thing? 

But yeah, it sounds like it's involved in these stories and stories create. Places for consciousness to gather after your last thing and that's definitely going to take us, it's not going to be a, yes, it's this one, no, it's that one kind of answer. Yes.  

[00:39:23] Tava Baird: Yes.  
 

[00:39:24] Jennifer Taylor: Sort of a, a Metatron sort of thing.  

[00:39:26] Tava Baird: Oh my God. Oh my God. 

Please don't get him started on that too. He just said, Are you saying I speak too much, Umshal? You speak exactly the right amount.  

[00:39:39] Jennifer Taylor: It's just that we've learned that our human bodies don't have the capacity to take in all of that in one long sitting, which inevitably we end up doing and then we can't move for days and then we get fussed at for doing too much. 

[00:39:54] Tava Baird: He says maybe someday we will simply sit and talk of hell.  

[00:39:59] Jennifer Taylor: Yes, I want to be in on that conversation.  

[00:40:03] Tava Baird: My favorite, I know I said I was going to stop, but um, my favorite description that I've ever read of Hell, if you've ever read the play No Exit, I know some people are forced to read it in high school, it is an incredible play. And if you are a person who loves theater and drama and have never read it, you've got to get your hands on it. 

Is it Sartre that wrote it? I'm trying to remember now. It is incredible and the most famous quote from it is the quote, Hell is other people. So if we're diving into the holidays and you're an introvert and you've just been invited to 40 holiday parties, Maybe you want to get yourself a night shirt that says, hell is other people on it right now to make it through the time. 

Um, but yeah, highly recommend it as a, a really interesting idea of the concept of Hell.  

[00:41:01] Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. So I guess the question is, should we be talking, should we switch gears to the podcast we were planning on making? Yes. Or are we supposed to be having  

[00:41:11] Tava Baird: this conversation? I think, I think we should try to switch gears because we wanted to talk about boundaries, today. 

 and about some really incredible things and experiences that have literally happened to both of us in the last 48 hours. 

And Jen, I just realized you have not sung yet.  

[00:41:33] Jennifer Taylor: That is correct. And I actually, Maybe five minutes ago all of a sudden was like, oh, I have to sing and things started to come through on that.  

[00:41:41] Tava Baird: Samuel is clearly excited about the singing. He has moved to be right near me and I'm like, you're kind of crowding me a bit. 

I don't want to miss it.  

[00:41:51] Jennifer Taylor: Wow. You're not  

[00:41:53] Tava Baird: going to miss it. You hear things all over. He wants to watch you do it. He wants to watch you sing.  

[00:41:58] Jennifer Taylor: Oh wow. Goodness. Okay. Yeah. No pressure there. And then he laughs, I  

[00:42:05] Tava Baird: am always watching. I want to watch through the box. Watch through the box. How fun. Suddenly getting, he's getting less technology shy, I guess. 

[00:42:18] Jennifer Taylor: I said, he's getting less technology shy. And he declared I am never shy. He does not giggle and he is never shy.  

Those, those do sound like accurate statements. Yeah, I feel like you're definitely going to get a different song than you would have gotten had we started without all of his help.  

[00:42:41] Tava Baird: Oh good, oh good. This  

[00:42:42] Jennifer Taylor: song feels much more joyful and,uplifting than the one that I feel like would have come outhad I not had all of those lovely words from you, Samael through, our lovely Tava. 

( singing.....)

 So I almost started laughing near the end of that when that like really high, very, very different, not so much human sort of note sound started coming out and I started laughing because I felt like Samael was making that note. And I was laughing to myself. I was like, I bet he's laughing. Like I did that because at the beginning I invited him and Michael, I invited Michael to sing  

And I was like, and Samuel, you can come through too, of course. And then there was just that point when I was bringing that and I was thinking, wow, that doesn't sound like. A human voice note at least thats how it sounded inside my head, and I hope that this is not like blowing out everybody's eardrums, but it was so just different. 

I have this visual of my, in my mind of what that note looked like, but I just kept thinking. I feel like Samael, Samael did that one. 

is, he's, he's in quite a good mood now. Is that why you wanted to get close to the box?  

He's like, I want to see, and I thought about that. I was like, he was like, I want to see her have to do that note. 

[00:46:09] Tava Baird: Oh my goodness. I have a little something he also said as you were singing. Apparently he can multitask.  

[00:46:20] Jennifer Taylor: I have no doubt. You can  

[00:46:21] Tava Baird: do all things. Yes. I, he said, sweeping away, sweeping away. Now is the season for sweeping away. Open the door and return the dust and detritus of your past paths to nature. Open your inner windows to let in the wind. 

The concerns and cares of others will be scoured from your heart. A brisk cold awakens you. Prepare for winter. Prepare to settle in. Build a fire uniquely your own and warm yourself.  

[00:46:59] Jennifer Taylor: Nice.  
 

[00:47:00] Tava Baird: And we're going to talk about boundaries, so that's kind of  

[00:47:03] Jennifer Taylor: nice. Does he have anything to say about that note that I was referring to? 

Am I all anything to say about the note? Oh, goodness, he's talking fast again. did not want to step in without your permission, but you gave it. And so parroted Lilith's crow, so you can feel her worth. So you were imitating Lilith. Yes. Hold on, there's more here coming through here. Yes. When she is happy, she crows. I think that's another word for cry. And he kind of pushes his chest out a little bit and he made the note you just made. Nice. So this is a Lilith thing. Does she do that often? Oh yes. Laughs. And it delights me. That's fantastic. It's so funny. This is the first time that it has even dawned on me to allow Samael to sing through me because I always think of, you know, like you're the word and you bring history and it just all of a sudden I was like, of course, well, yeah, if you want to come in, like, you know, join away. 

But it was so funny. I was thinking I know this note is from Samael.  

[00:48:27] Tava Baird: He says, I like to sing. I am an angel.  

[00:48:33] Jennifer Taylor: Well, he is welcome, you're welcome, Samuel, to sing through me any time. You have carte blanche open permission to sing through me, so I, uh, I would love that.  

[00:48:47] Tava Baird: Okay, this is funny. I had no idea about, this is all new to me. I am more of a soloist, but I was willing to share with Michael.  

I did think I was like, well, this is an interesting, uh, asking for this interesting duet. So that was, uh, I appreciate him being willing to share. Do you sing with Lilith? Mostly I dance with Lilith while she sings. Now I have this mental picture of like Samaya and Lilith doing the Samba while she's just like singing away.  

[00:49:30] Jennifer Taylor: I just, I, I love this. And of course now I've gotten us off track again, but honestly, I think it's a good thing for people to know what's coming through in the song. 

And so I think hearing that that is. to help with the worth and that is, Samael singing, uh, you know, parroting Lilith's crow and helping us. I think that That's really helpful, too, because I do intend to take these songs and separate them, put them out so that people can access them. 

And so I think it's really neat to have that information for people of like, you know, when you need to sweep out and you need to just feel that sense that they could listen to that. So I am, I'm very grateful and worth it. He says, I  

[00:50:15] Tava Baird: like to Well, I'm sorry. Yeah. No, he just wants to talk with you about singing now. 

Apparently he says I like to echo too.  

Nice. Yeah, I Did not know this  

 I think it's perfect that the song that was meant to bring this in had that piece of Lilith and, you look like you have things you're ready to add Tava. 

[00:50:42] Jennifer Taylor: So, um, in the Pagan community, one of the most pillar deities is Hecate. And I would just like to briefly talk about pronunciation if we could. Um, I have probably heard Hecate's name pronounced no less than eight ways. Um, and one thing I, and the most common and sort of generally accepted pronunciation, even though none of us speak ancient Greek, is Hecate. 

[00:51:19] Tava Baird: Um, she is considered the goddess of witches, but also the goddess of boundaries. And her symbol is a key. She is often pictured with hounds that guard her borders. And she carries a torch for seeing or sometimes two torches for seeing in dark places. I do want to tell you though, if you do run into someone else who pronounces it differently, Please be gentle with them, because William Shakespeare himself referred to her in some of his writing, and we can tell from the way that he rhymed that he pronounced it, heck ate, or heck it. 

without the e sound at the end. So you might run into a theater kid who absolutely pronounces it Beckett. And before you ridicule them, just remember William Shakespeare himself pronounced it that way. And he was around before we were. So, um, and also, uh, there is a lot of historians believe in religious scholars these days. 

I believe that before she was in the Greek pantheon, that, uh, she was actually a Middle Eastern goddess that may have been picked up by the Greeks as they tended to adopt, um, gods and goddesses from other cultures into their pantheon, the ones that they took a shine to. So, um, We wanted to talk about boundaries and if you are interested in working on boundaries, which I rarely meet a person who isn't, um, she is a wonderful goddess to look into and to call upon and to work with. 

Um, especially if you are someone who practices witchcraft, because then you get double duo, right? Like you get, you get, Both the gods, goddess of witchcraft and the goddess of boundaries to work with.  

[00:53:12] Jennifer Taylor: you look like you're getting something.  

[00:53:13] Tava Baird: There's a little bit of something. Yeah, he's, he's jumping ahead a little bit. He's, he's expanding on the idea of worth. 

He says, I will rest. So, okay, he'll be right. He's just like, Chatty today.  

[00:53:37] Jennifer Taylor: So, having talked about all of the things that had happened then on the mountain and since then, and my realizing that. I really, I needed balance and I needed rest and I needed to be in a full place. To do that was very much like the messages that Uh, Tava had received after what, like 24 or 48 hours ago when she had had an experience. 

And again, um, I think I'm going to sum up her story a little bit because just the same, we're still really, it's still very, we're all very close. And so, um, Tava had a, a really, really big week following. A really big, probably several months of nonstop, big energetic things and was already in a place where she was very tired. 

and worn down and she hadn't slept. She hadn't eaten. She was, had been giving and giving and giving and was very, very open and had been teaching a class, actually two back to back classes and with some mentorship stuck in between at, uh, the Blue Ball Inn. And so had been in the inn then all day. 

And had, you know, very little food, really low on rest and very open to all of her students and then decided, Hey, you know, we're here, let's go upstairs and just see if I can connect. And so she, she went up with a groupof students and they went up to the same room where she had had an experience of kind of being overlapped by a spirit before and started to really open herself up. 

And there were a lot of experiences and things that were happening from the very beginning that were very intense energetically and other people were noticing things around her energetically happening and there was a lot of intensity and from that place, and I think of excitement too, of I, I'm finally feeling worthy to hear these things. 

I think I can see and I can hear, and I'm going to just open up and, you know, see what sort of experience I can have and said,  

Is anyone here? at which point, Sam and I all stepped up behind and wrapped his wings around her and was like, this is not the time. 

Um, you know, this is not the time among a few other things. And it was like, okay, you need to just get out. You're not. And he she realized, you know, you're not I'm not in a strong place right now. I'm not in a rested place. This is not a time to just open myself up. And Marco and me on the way home and my husband on the way home, and we were like, what is she thinking? 

Oh my goodness. And so I left  

[00:56:34] Tava Baird: thinking,  

[00:56:35] Jennifer Taylor: yeah. And then I had left her Marco about boundaries and Samuel then had a whole lot to say to her the next day. And we realized that, you know, while not everyone is driving over mountains that have these sorts of situations or, are, um, you know, stepping into haunted inns that we are always. 

in places where we are surrounded by a lot of energies. And sometimes those energies are coming from people who are embodied right now. And sometimes they are our energies that are just in the places that we happen to be or happen to be sort of attracted to our energies. And that we thought that we wanted to share some of the messages that we had received around this in the hopes that it can help you as well. 

I  

[00:57:26] Tava Baird: don't know if anyone who listens has watched the show What We Do in the Shadows. It is ridiculously silly and one of my favorite things on television and sadly it's its final season but it is about a bunch of vampires who are roommates and three of them are regular, you know, blood sucking vampires. 

The fourth is an energy vampire called Colin Robinson. And one of his favorite, the way that he feeds is basically he goes into work environments and starts to bore people with really long, tedious stories until, and then he feeds off of their energy as he, you know, he's slowly sapping. And I love that so much because years ago, long before what we do in the shadows, someone had introduced the concept of psychic vampires to me. 

These are people who a lot of times are more than happy to run right over boundaries,Whether they're conscious of it or unconscious of it. And my dogs are just barking to go outside. I might just need to come right back. I'm so sorry. That's fine.  

[00:58:40] Jennifer Taylor: No, it's okay. I'll be right back.  

I couldn't hear him.  

As this is a two part podcast, at this point when Tava had left the room to go let her animals out, I decided, you know, it's just Samuel and I sitting here together. I may as well sing. And so this is the song that came through. I thought it might be nice to use this as the ending of this podcast, and then  

I will actually start part two with this song again, and then you can hear what happens when Tava comes back in and finds that I've been in here singing and we have a fun little conversation before we get back into the topic of boundaries and energy vampires and all sorts of other things.  

[00:59:33] Tava Baird: home, 
 

[00:59:45] Jennifer Taylor: (singing) 

Thank you for being a part of our tribe, for listening along and participating and being a part of this incredible journey with us. And we look forward to seeing you next week for part two. Until then, go with our blessings and love and know that Hecate and Samael and Michael and so many beautiful, wonderful guides are walking this path with you.