Episode 18: Rediscovering Joy and Building Metaphysical Communities (Part 1)

The Power of Music and Building a Harmonious Metaphysical Community (Part 1)

In this episode we begin with a light-hearted discussion about the unexpected topics that can arise during our podcasts. They explore the deep connection between music and spirituality, highlighted by personal experiences and metaphysical commentary from entities like Archangel Michael and Samael. The conversation transitions to the significance of music as nourishment for the soul and the joy it brings, relating it to personal experiences from their childhood and future aspirations to incorporate more music into their lives. The latter part of the episode offers a comprehensive guide on starting and sustaining successful metaphysical or pagan groups, emphasizing practical tips on group size, recruitment, conflict resolution, and structuring meetings. The hosts stress the importance of maintaining privacy on social media, managing expectations, and sharing responsibilities within the group for a long-lasting and harmonious community experience.

00:00 Welcome and Introduction

00:27 Setting the Stage for Today's Topic

04:26 The Power of Music and Seraphim Snacks

07:15 Reflecting on Music's Role in Our Lives

10:41 Reconnecting with Musical Passions

11:54 The Violin Story: Rediscovering Joy

18:18 Understanding the Suzuki Method

22:22 Finding Joy in Childhood Passions

31:21 Theater Memories and Show Tunes

33:20 Building Community Through Song

34:05 Starting and Structuring a New Group

36:21 Avoiding Common Pitfalls in Group Formation

38:26 Managing Group Dynamics and Conflict

39:28 Setting Expectations and Roles

40:43 Social Media and Privacy Concerns

43:41 Effective Group Leadership and Mentorship

53:07 Inviting and Integrating New Members

01:02:04 Ensuring Long-Term Success

01:03:37 Final Thoughts and Encouragement

Thank you joining us today, remember to LIKE and SUBSCRIBE to keep up to date with your tribe.

Connect with your Hosts!

Tava Baird: tavabaird.com or https://darkflowerbooks.etsy.com.

Jennifer Taylor: Willow Ridge Reiki and Healing Arts https://www.willowridgereiki.com/

Transcript

Jennifer Taylor: [00:00:00] 

Jennifer Taylor: Hello everybody and welcome back for another episode of a podcast today. We are going to, you know, we shouldn't do this. I shouldn't say what the topic is cause it's just going to go haywire.

Tava Baird: So, well, how 

Jennifer Taylor: about instead I just say, Hey, Jen, how are you? I'm well, thanks. It's good to be back here doing another podcast. Yes. 

Tava Baird: We had a lot in the barrel that we have now edited and, so now we're on to some new topics that I'm super excited about.

Tava Baird: And again, will not mention until I actually start speaking on them because, you never know what's going to happen. Lovely listeners. I did mention that. who's been chill for the last few weeks, not really chatty again the other day. And so I never know when the Seraphim is going to kind of hijack the topic.

Tava Baird: So we're going to, we're going to forge [00:01:00] forward and create some lovely, lovely, Sacred space with sound here for our discussion, whatever it may turn out to be 

Jennifer Taylor: sounds good. I will bring it. I already hear Archangel Michael in my ears. And as always, as we had established before, Sam Isle is always welcome to join as well.

Jennifer Taylor: So I will just open up and bring through whatever it is that they would like to, to bring through energetically to prepare us all for. This, uh, conversation, whatever is meant to really come through for us today, 

Jennifer Taylor: [00:02:00] [00:03:00] [00:04:00] 

Jennifer Taylor: That was lovely, thank you. Well, I have to say, your song today, I said there was a chatty Seraphim, and hoo, boy. Um, I knew he was excited about you singing because he was humming as you were getting the microphones set.

Tava Baird: And I think you may have actually been anticipating us doing this today because I got woken up in the middle of the night last night to him humming and I was like, what are you doing? It's just, it's humming away. Um, he, we have a little something that he said [00:05:00] while you were singing and I have not heard him discuss this before.

Tava Baird: And I think you will find it interesting. He says, You can eat and drink music, Bumshalu. It is nourishing for the soul, can be a feast for the heart. When you are troubled, lonely, and hungry for something more, find new flavors of song. Provide for others with your voice. Fill the senses as you would at a supper of celebration.

Tava Baird: Water and bread and the fruits of the earth maintain the body, but music maintains the soul. The first bite of the fruit of knowledge is also the sound that begins our hymns of praise. Praise of unity and the beauty that is the seed of all life. And then he had a little message for you. I thank you for the full belly, singer.[00:06:00] 

Tava Baird: So I, I'm, I'm guessing that maybe your songs are also snacks in a certain way. 

Jennifer Taylor: Seraphim snacks. 

Tava Baird: Seraphim 

Jennifer Taylor: Snacks, that's the name of your first 

Tava Baird: album, Seraphim Snacks. Ah, I love it. Well, I mean, in the Bible and you look whenever angels are mentioned, they are always singing hymns of praise or singing, there's, you know, There's so much connection between music and angels, they're always pictured holding harps and, and trumpets and, you know, all of the music is such a part of all of the stories that we have about them, sort of makes sense that if they are not walking around in earthly bodies, that music is an essential part of that.

Tava Baird: part of their lives sort of like water is to ours. Um, and so we're to the point where like they crave it.I guess we could, [00:07:00] you know, maybe a pop song is like Pirate's Booty for the archangels, who knows. Um, but I've never heard him talk about music as food before. I just thought that was kind of cool.

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah, I think it's really fascinating for me. I'm seeing it too in the context of my last week where. Food has been something that has been extremely limited to the BRAT diet of, you know, I've had some stomach issues and so all I've been able to eat is like plain white bread and saltine crackers and water and, you know, it's been like extremely limited and it's so interesting that in this time when for me I'm like, I can't, I'm not, I don't feel like I'm getting any of the stimulation and excitement in the life out of my food.

Jennifer Taylor: That the idea to feast on song and feast on music and fill my belly with that, I think is a really [00:08:00] fascinating thing for me, timing wise there. 

Tava Baird: This is also, this is a topic I thought about at one point when I was thinking about the difference in how I lived my life now versus how I lived it when I was a teenager or college student.

Tava Baird: And I mean, obviously like. Your body is different. Your finances are different. Your social circle is different. All of those things. But one thing that I noticed as a teacher, especially when I was working with middle and high school students, is the amount of music in their life, right? They always have their headphones on.

Tava Baird: They are always excited to bond and talk with their peers about new music that's come out or old music that they're rediscovering. They constantly have music in their environment. It's on their computer. It's in their rooms at home. They're excited to go to concerts. They, you know, a lot of them are [00:09:00] actively in music programs or taking music lessons or participating in choir.

Tava Baird: When I was just thinking about how, you know, during the holidays when I was younger, There was so much music, certain albums. I mean, this again shows you my age, I wanted the mixtape and a mixtape from someone showed they really loved and cared about you. And, you know, when you were in your first, your first sparks of romance, what did you do?

Tava Baird: You made them a mixtape. To show them that you aired, right? And, you know, friends would make you that for your birthday and concert tickets and albums and CDs were what you wanted. over the holidays where music was just an essential part of who you are. And I mean, if I look back now, I think of how many hours I spent on bands that I loved.

Tava Baird: So full revelation. I was a hardcore [00:10:00] Duran Duran fan back in the eighties, and I think the, lyrics, That, that particular group came up with, inspired the way that I write and the way that I process things and I think about stuff. And, you would go dancing, you know, in college, you went to parties and you danced.

Tava Baird: And if there was a live band there, it was the best night ever. And a lot of times during those years, especially college, when you're trying to pay for your books and stuff and you're eating, rice and beans music really was your fuel. A lot of times it put you in a new headspace and you pumped up or help you process heartbreak or any of those things.

Tava Baird: And at some point in my life, as I got older and went to work, I stopped having favorite bands. I stopped going to concerts. I didn't take music lessons anymore. And I'm realizing that that's, a real loss. it's such a [00:11:00] treat for me every time we do the podcast to hear you sing.

Jennifer Taylor: And it's such a treat to get together with you and Keith, because I constantly hear. About new music from the two of you. So, I'm making a concerted effort to do more of that back into my life and to pick up some of the passions that I had when I was 20, yeah, I'm definitely inspired to increase my diet of music and new music here From Sam Miles comments, and yeah, just the reminder of how, how much music is usually in the environment.

Jennifer Taylor: I guess I'm making music a lot more than I'm listening to it anymore these days. Which is probably a good thing to, to be actively participating in it. But, yeah, just filling my environment that much more. 

Tava Baird: I don't know if you would mind sharing this, but I thought it was a really great story.

Tava Baird: You picking up the violin again, a couple of weeks ago. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah, that [00:12:00] was, that was wild. so I had started playing the violin when I was three. I actually, um, we have this teeny, teeny weenie violin downstairs. That was my first violin. And I started out just, you know, taking lessons and, um, doing like Suzuki method with my dad, where he would learn to play something and I would just learn to play it by ear.

Jennifer Taylor: And I played and took lessons up until I was. I don't know, like 13 or 14. And, but at that point I was really good. I was really accomplished. I had been playing in orchestras and things and practicing and, um, I was playing at a high level, but I didn't, I didn't love it. Like it was, it was always work. It was always struggle.

Jennifer Taylor: but you know, the lessons were always like, it, it was to get me to the highest possible level. You know level of playing classical music that that she could get me to and she was very serious and there was never a just [00:13:00] Luxuriating in the music just you have learned to play this just play it just spend this week, you know Enjoying it was like, okay It was always just, what's the next more, most difficult technical thing that I can be made to play?

Jennifer Taylor: And so there was just this constant pushing and there was, there was no enjoyment in it. And so I stopped playing and then I would just pick it up around holidays every now and then, but then it got to where. I would pick it up and my, I, I couldn't just make it sing the way I used to, I would get it and then it would be screechy and then I would get frustrated and I would put it back away.

Jennifer Taylor: And then we were in various bands, one country and Southern rock band, and they were like, Oh my gosh, you play the violin, like, you know, get it out and play it like a fiddle. And so I would, I did a little bit of it, but It wasn't fantastic. It was very simplistic and I couldn't let go of the right and wrong kind of nature that I'd been taught in this very strict classical music, upbringing with it.

Jennifer Taylor: And then [00:14:00] we had another band that was, all, original music. And so that was much more freeing. And they were like, just play whatever comes out. And I'd started to be able to enjoy that. And, experiment with it being, you know, having a pickup on it and plugging it in through guitar pedals and making all sorts of different sounds.

Jennifer Taylor: And it was like, Ooh, this is cool. I can make all sorts of crazy sounds with it. Um, but it's, it wasn't a relaxed free thing. And so I, I would get it out and I'd put it away and I'd get it out a few years later. And I would just get more and more frustrated. And I had had,these, oh, various awakening kinds of energetic experiences of feeling like I could more and more of the veils were cleared.

Jennifer Taylor: And I sat down and all of a sudden I thought, I was like, I felt like I received this message of go get the violin and play, and I thought, well, okay. And I had this image where I had actually seen where in the storage room it was [00:15:00] the other day. And so I. I just, I went down and I got it out and I thought, okay, before I have a chance to talk about it, to talk myself out of it, to get frustrated, whatever, I'm just going to go down and pull it out and start playing and just not think at all.

Jennifer Taylor: And so I went down and I pulled it out and I decided I was like, I'm not even leaving the storage room because something is going to happen between here and there that's going to get me to not do it. And so I'd opened it up and I got it tuned as best I could because it had been a long time.

Jennifer Taylor: And I thought I just sat and it was totally different. I held it and I thought, I'm going to just infuse this with Infuse this with Reiki and energy and connect with it because I thought, you know, I'd, I'd never played a native American flute before. And yet in an energy work session, I could just pick it up and just play [00:16:00] it and had no idea how to, how to play it otherwise, like I, and I was thinking, well, if I can do this with other instruments, I know I have a memory of how to play the violin.

Jennifer Taylor: It's in there somewhere. I ought to be able to access this. So I sat and I held it and I just, I infused it with Reiki, with my love and asked it to just be infused with the divine. and connect with it. And I was just saying, I can play this instrument. Let this be a vehicle for the divine.

Jennifer Taylor: Let this be an extension and a voice for the divine to, to flow through. And I just sat in that energy and it felt really, really strong. And I just picked it up. And I thought, just like I do with my voice, Or, any other instrument in a sound healing session, I'm going to just start playing and see what happens.

Jennifer Taylor: And it was [00:17:00] unbelievable. I just started playing and all this stuff started coming out and I had never been able to pick it up and really just sort of. you know, riff on it, like just sort of play and play all sorts of different things or come up with a tune or play around. Like it was, it was always very stifled and it just, all of these tunes just started just flowing out through me.

Jennifer Taylor: And it wasn't screechy. Like I was playing like I had. When I was a kid, it was unbelievable. And it just kept flowing and kept going. And it was the most joyful, just connected experience I have ever had playing the violin. So I am, and I remember telling you about that afterwards and Sam Eyal having some words, or he said a few things about it.

Jennifer Taylor: I don't know if you remember. 

Tava Baird: Oh, I remember him, I remember listening to you describing it and him saying some things, but I don't remember precisely what he said, [00:18:00] other than it was very encouraging. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah, I think he said something like, it is a sacred instrument now, I think. 

Tava Baird: Yes, yes, that sounds correct.

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah, I think there was something else with it, but that was the, that felt like kind of the gist of it, was like, it is a sacred instrument now. It's a sacred instrument. 

Tava Baird: You know, I'm just thinking people might not know what Suzuki method is. I know. I didn't know until I started working with young children.

Tava Baird: I had never heard of it, but it's fascinating. Would you mind giving just a quick definition? Because there might be people out there who have young children who are interested. 

Tava Baird: Sure.We know we had at one of the Montessori schools that I worked at There was a Suzuki group that came in and worked with some of the children and these it was these little tiny Kids with instruments. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah, so Here's a littleoverview. the Suzuki method is a music teaching method that's created by, um, a Japanese violinist, uh, whose last [00:19:00] name was Suzuki, in the mid 20th century.

Jennifer Taylor: And the method is based on the idea that children can learn to play music with the same ease that they learn to speak their native language. And so it is, works on, it, okay. So Suzuki Method aims to create a reinforcing environment so that it's enjoyable, uh, for the teacher and the child and the parents to develop musical ability, um, with carefully selected songs to help the students advance in their skills, to develop good form and posture.

Jennifer Taylor: they use properly fitted instruments, really small ones are for small Children. really any sort of music thing is going to do that. You know, they're going to make sure that you have a properly sized instrument, and involve the parents. So this is a big thing.

Jennifer Taylor: And this could be any caregiver who's willing You know, support that it could be a grandparent or a good friend who is willing to do this and regularly practice and do this with the [00:20:00] kids. That so the parents or the caregivers are expected to attend the lessons with the child and to serve as their home teachers.

Jennifer Taylor: And then encourage mastery. So they, review and play these things over and over. But the thing that I love about Suzuki is the way, at least that we learned, is my dad got a violin and he took the lesson with me. And So I would learn from the teacher and it's all by ear, at least for a long time.

Jennifer Taylor: And that's where I think the thing with the idea of learning to speak the native language is like you learn to speak your native language just by hearing it and hearing people and having them use it over and over. And with Suzuki. It's being modeled for you. You see someone and they'll show you, how to put your fingers properly on the strings and how to bow and things like that.

Jennifer Taylor: But you're hearing it and then you're trying to reproduce those sounds that you're hearing through the instrument. And [00:21:00] because you're then doing it with, a parent or a caregiver or someone who is, caring and doing this with you, It's a group kind of thing. you're not just standing there by yourself in a room trying to figure it out.

Jennifer Taylor: You're doing it together. And so it can be a really good way of doing it. And it really helps to build that listening ear, the ability to really hear that note and replicate it, exactly. And so it builds a lot of times people talk about Suzuki is learning to play by ear. eventually I think in later things, they start to add in reading music or things like that.

Jennifer Taylor: But the, that learning to mimic it is a big part of the Suzuki method. 

Tava Baird: That's so cool. Maria Montessori talked about the absorbent mind. They, they drink these things in and it's so much easier to learn these things as a young child than it is as an adult. I didn't have any musical background or music lessons as a kid and tried to learn to play the guitar and [00:22:00] the ukulele multiple times as an adult.

Tava Baird: And it's the difference between picking up language in your environment, which is what children do and trying to cram for a test, like trying to memorize things, which is how we learn things as adults as we often memorize them. And so it's, it's a huge difference in it. I don't know if anybody out there listening is a Ted Lasso fan, but this reminds me, this discussion reminds me of, I know that I don't think the show's on, I don't know if the show's on the air anymore, I don't think it is, but I'm just now finally getting Into it and watching early seasons.

Tava Baird: And there's a great episode that I watched last night. There's a character named Roy Kent, who is an extremely gruff, soccer player. Ted Lasso, by the way, if you haven't watched it, an absolutely joyful, wonderful show that's just full of heart. And it's about this American who is, basically he's, he goes over to [00:23:00] England and he is.

Tava Baird: crying to coach a British, what we would call soccer team. They call it football without, without really understanding the sport. But, uh, in the episode last night, so Roy Kent was like the star player and the team leader. And he eventually his body starts to age out of being able to play soccer, the competitive soccer quite the same and he leaves.

Tava Baird: And the young man that he chooses as his replacement is taking things very, very seriously and having a lot of trouble on the field. He's tense all the time. He's starting to bark at his teammates. he's not feeling good and so coach Ted Lasso calls up Roy Kent and says, I need your help. what do you think we should do for,the guy you left in charge as the team captain?

Tava Baird: And so Roy Kent says, meet me at this particular location [00:24:00] tonight, bring him. So Ted Lasso shows up there with the new guy and Roy Kent says, come on. And he leads them into this soccer field that is in a neighborhood Huge apartment buildings and tons of people and it's clear that it's a perhaps a lower income neighborhood and the soccer field has these huge like wire walls on it so it can be locked up and there's all these kids in there playing and so Roy Kent takes his successor in and he says You're going to play soccer with the kids.

Tava Baird: And, his successor says, I'm a professional footballer. I'm going to run circles around them, you know, and, and right. He says, do you see that building up there? And the guy says, yeah, the one that looks kind of like down on its heels. And Rick Kent says, that's where I grew up. And he said, I lived on this soccer field.

Tava Baird: This was where I learned the game. This, when he said, when you were a kid, you didn't play soccer to win, you didn't play soccer to [00:25:00] make money, you did it, and of course he's not saying soccer, he's saying football because they're in England, but he says, you did it because you loved it, because it was a game, because it was fun, and he says, get out there on the field and play with these kids.

Tava Baird: So he goes out and there's all these, teenagers out there that start making fun of him and they're running circles around him because he's so focused on winning in the rules and his reputation as a footballer that he has forgotten he's lost the joy of the game. And he starts to protest at one point because all the teenagers are picking on him and talking trash shooting the ball right out from underneath him.

Tava Baird: And finally, after a little while, he gets the idea that all he has to do is enjoy himself. And he gets back in and he starts scoring and he starts, winning and he's high fiving everybody else on the field and rushing with his team. And basically he just gets that joy.

Tava Baird: And so the next [00:26:00] thing they do is, you see him back on the professional field and he's running around high fiving everybody. Five and everybody before the game and their warmups are all really filled with joy. And you hear the voiceover of the announcer say, oh my goodness, we haven't seen him smile all season.

Tava Baird: It's so nice to see that. And, they're, they're ticking booty in the game. So it's, that we forget a lot of times. of the things that really used to inspire us when we were kids. they're supposed to be joyful. They're supposed to be games. They're supposed to be making music.

Tava Baird: And sometimes you put your finger on the string wrong, or sometimes you don't make the shot, but they were the things that fueled us. And, I know I talk to a lot of adults that say, you know, okay, I'm about to retire and I don't know what I'm going to do with myself, or I get weekends and all I do is chores.

Tava Baird: I would like to encourage everybody to go back and look at, what were [00:27:00] you great at? I was a kid. What did you love? Baton twirling were, did you pull, turn summer salts in the front yard? When was the last time you were on a really kick booty tire swing? Did you go swimming? Did you make up silly ghost stories with your friends?

Tava Baird: And is there a version of that that you can do now where you drop the rules and you improvise? And you get that, that joy. I've never thought of myself as a, a good singer, but when I was a kid, we used to, we lived in a neighborhood that was very military because my dad was in the Navy and we moved around a lot.

Tava Baird: And a lot of times we didn't know our neighbors because they were always moving out and we were always moving in, or vice versa. But we did one of the things my mom used to do is my mom loves Christmas, like she leaves Christmas stuff up here around. She always wanted to go caroling [00:28:00] and my sister and I would kind of drag our feet and be like, Oh, it's Christmas stuff.

Tava Baird: But we would get together with the neighborhood kids around somebody who had a piano in their living room and someone who could play. And we would spend one afternoon or one evening. singing together and just making sure we knew the songs. And then we would roll out and go door to door to door on our street and just sing our hearts out.

Tava Baird: And then we'd go back to somebody's house afterwards for, you know, cocoa and cider and cookies and sing some more. And it was phenomenal. It was a great thing to do. I'm sure, I know there are a lot of people who listen to this podcast who might not, like a lot of the songs we know, the carols we know, are from one particular faith or religion, but there are other ones out there, Deck the Halls is all about a yule log.

Tava Baird: That's pagan, man. You could throw that in. I'm sure [00:29:00] that there, have to be other songs for Hanukkah besides Dreidel, Dreidel, Dreidel. And I'm going to challenge you all to tell me what they are. whatever it is, you could just get together and sing, make up your own carols. if you have musical ability, sing your own words to music or just sing songs, here comes the sun or, oh gosh, somewhere over the rainbow or whatever it is, a song that everybody knows,and get that sense of, of play.

Tava Baird: I know Sam Myall talks about singing in round being a really potent way of singing together because you have to focus, you have to be really entirely like engulfed in that experience and focused on it in order to keep your part going.

Jennifer Taylor: those are, you know, some of the absolute simplest songs. Um, there are ones that can be sung in round. 

Tava Baird: Well, yeah, rounds are absolutely amazing. One of the most powerful musical experiences I ever [00:30:00] had is I was doing Montessori training. And they taught us all, there was, we went to a lot of different classrooms, some people were training to be toddler teachers, some were training to work with primary students, some were training to teach elementary, and so on.

Tava Baird: And we were spending our days working very hard in separate classrooms, but they would, they brought us all together, the very first day, and there were probably over a hundred of us, and they taught us a very simple song about peace. We got together, I think that this portion of the training was two weeks long, where we were having our classroom portions and every morning we would get together and sing it till we were really good.

Tava Baird: And then at the end of the two week period when we were getting all ready to go our separate ways, they divided us into groups and they had us sing it as a round. And it was one of the most beautiful things I have ever heard, like I'm choking up talking about it, to hear. Over a hundred teachers who were going into their [00:31:00] separate classrooms sing in a round, and each one of them was taking that song about peace, Mark, to a classroom that would have anywhere between 15 and 30 students in it, and they would sing it.

Tava Baird: We could sing it and teach it going forward. And it was absolutely fantastic. Um, show tunes. Oh man. If you are a show tune or theater person, there is nothing like belting out something from cabaret or into the woods, or I know wicked is really huge right now, roll out, define gravity. Some of the best experiences I had in college is I, was very involved in college theater.

Tava Baird: My part time jobs were there and I was a stage manager and I acted and we would have cast parties. And I mean when you're 21 or 20, you know, let's face it, the beer is an important part of the cast party, right? And the other actors that might have a huge crush on. But [00:32:00] there were some nights where we would get together, go to a cast party.

Tava Baird: It would start off with eating and drinking and flirting And it would end with 20 people lying flat on their backs on a carpet, singing show tunes together to old albums, just doing, you know, songs from a chorus line and songs from Rent and songs from Les Mis and everybody just sort of drunkenly singing their hearts out.

Tava Baird: And it created this incredible. This incredible, sacred space where we all were accepted for exactly who we were by singing these songs that were all, we'd all come from different backgrounds and from different geographical locations, but we all knew the words and,we were all going to sing Pippin together.

Tava Baird: So if you were a theater kid at some point, or you just happened to, you know, your kids know all the words to Frozen and you [00:33:00] thought, I never want to sing, that again, roll out the old Disney songs and lay around on the rug in your living room and sing, you know, build a fire or light some candles, have dinner and sing.

Tava Baird: And it will be a night that you will remember.

Tava Baird: So this was not the topic I had planned for today. but here it is, hijacked by a Seraphim music, music, 

Jennifer Taylor: I know you were planning on talking about, building community and ways of building community and you really were just talking about building community through song.

Jennifer Taylor: So maybe that's just the segue into our building community. Okay. 

Tava Baird: So I actually did write down a couple of things that I wanted to talk about, so I'm just going to get those notes out here. this actually worked out better than I thought. I had some, some things I wanted to share with you all, but starting off with song [00:34:00] is great.

Tava Baird: Groups that sing together tend to be harmonious. as we go into the new year, a lot of people start thinking, what are my new year's resolutions going to be? Now, if you are a practicing Kigan, you might go, we just had our new year because Samhain marks the end of the old year and the beginning of the step into the sacred darkness and the new year.

Tava Baird: maybe you celebrate your new year. turning over a new leaf at the end of October, or maybe you do it on January 1st, but, one of the things that I always hear people say they want to do in the upcoming year is focus more on their spirituality, and perhaps, Build a group around that, whether it's a book club or just a group that gets together in a living room and talks about spiritual topics, or whether you're like, [00:35:00] yep, this is the year I make that oven whatever it is that you want.

Tava Baird: however you decide to structure it. A lot of people have this on their bucket list. Now I am, and don't get mad at me because I'm going to say I'm an old witch and she always tells me, stop using the word old, you're a very experienced witch where I have seen an awful lot of successful groups.

Tava Baird: But I have seen a great many more groups that are, they end up falling into disarray and conflict because of how they structured or didn't structure themselves. So one of the things I wanted to share today was a little bit of that experience and some ideas. If you are going. Yeah, I want to start a new group at my university or among my friends andI'm not really [00:36:00] sure how to get started and how to make the thing run.

Tava Baird: I wanted to share with you some cautionary tales and some ideas for getting a metaphysical discussion group or a group that gets together and celebrates off the ground and some pitfalls to avoid. That I see happen over and over and over again.the first thing is start. Small and start with people, I know some people who said I'm gonna start a coven And they are posting it on Facebook and the next thing, you know, they have 25 people interested None of whom have the same idea or expectations for the group which can lead to conflict and eventually A dramatic blow up later on in the group.

Tava Baird: So the most successful groups that I've seen, they start off with two or three people [00:37:00] who decide they're going to get together at someone's house on a Friday night. Now, it's terrific fun to find members of your tribe and discuss topics with them. As Jen and her husband Keith both know from experience from the 6 million Marcos we have left each other, I'm fairly certain at this point that the Marco Polo app must have us on their radar somewhere being like, what in the world's going on in Virginia because of how many hours we use that thing.

Tava Baird: We're probably 

Jennifer Taylor: taking up an entire one of those like units. The data center? We're probably an entire data center just holding our Marcos. 

Tava Baird: Just holding our Marcos. lot of times these things start spontaneously. You have some people over for dinner, or you're having coffee, or you happen to be reading a metaphysical book in a book group, and the next thing you know you have a bunch of interested parties who say, I have wanted to ha I have a regular [00:38:00] spiritual practice in my life, and I keep sort of falling off the wagon, so to speak.

Tava Baird: I have the best of intentions, and the next thing I know, I turn around, it's been three months, my altar is covered in a layer of dust, and I never finished what I started, and I feel guilty about it, and it's something I want for myself. And so the next thing you know, you spontaneously have this group of interested parties.

Tava Baird: It's amazing. The thing that I would encourage you to do, start off really tiny with people that you know and trust and have experience because diving into some of these topics, you end up burying a lot of your soul that can be nerve wracking for people. And you want to be as comfortable as you possibly can.

Tava Baird: Having somebody right off the bat in the group that you just met can cause people to withdraw [00:39:00] or to misinterpret the way that people are communicating. So start off with one or two buddies that you've known for a while, you feel very comfortable with. And if you misspeak, it's not going to cause giant.

Tava Baird: Um, and even if you have that first great conversation and you think, Oh, these people are my really good friends. If you're going to get more than about three people, I highly encourage your second or your third meeting to be about a discussion for what are your expectations for this group. Everybody may seem to be just having a wonderful conversation, but then you discover that one of them wants to lead a group of 25 people, another person just wants to get together once every six months, [00:40:00] and a third person really hopes that they can bring their three other best friends two weeks from now.

Tava Baird: So you want to get out there on the table. What are the expectations and goals for this? Are you comfortable inviting other people? Are you comfortable, with how big the group is or the size that it is? What are your goals? Because you may find out that your goals don't match and that what you really need is more than one project here where one person is going to go off and start, you know, something else.

Tava Baird: also, Please, please, please. I know we are all linked into social media. I know it is so tempting to post a picture of your metaphysical book club on Facebook and go, great night with these people. Don't do it. Please [00:41:00] don't do it. I can tell you the shelf life of people doing things like this just on social media.

Tava Baird: It's going to explode and it's going to explode fast. These conversations are very private for many, many people. They are sacred things in their personal development. Treat them the same way you would medical issues. You would never dream of getting on social media and being like, My friend has this life altering illness.

Tava Baird: You would never do that.

Jennifer Taylor: It's like, here we are in the ER as they're, they're getting a, uh, an emergency. A transfusion. Yeah. 

Tava Baird: Look at them with tubes up their nose. Like, it's just poor taste. You would never announce someone else's pregnancy or divorce on social media. so please don't out them as a [00:42:00] pagan or someone who is seeking on social media.

Tava Baird: There are, and I know it's crazy to think this, but in 2024, There are people who could lose their jobs or family relationships over them participating in a metaphysical book club. And I know you're thinking, no, they wouldn't. Oh, yes, they can. So keep the photos. off social media or better yet, don't take any photos.

Tava Baird: This is, if you want this to be successful, everybody needs to be comfortable and if they're worrying about which photo is going to show up on Blue Sky or Threads or who is going to comment on them on your website, this is not going to be a successful group. So, Just put that aside. If you want to be, if you want to put yourself out there, because like, you know, I have a website, I do stuff and I have [00:43:00] people that I mentor and contact me privately through social media, but I never, never, never reveal who I'm working with.

Tava Baird: Without explicit permission from them and even then if somebody's at a class and I want to take a picture of a class, I always say, are you comfortable having your photo saying that you came to, class and a lot of people say no, maybe not the people you expected. So just put the idea of social media away.

Tava Baird: If you want to become, The face of witchcraft on Facebook, that's good. Do that for you. Don't take your book club along with you. Please, please. second in that expectations is to talk about looking at schedule. How often do people want to meet? What will you be talking about? you can probably tell from these podcasts, a lot of times we think it's going to be one topic and then it goes into another.

Tava Baird: Thank goodness Jen is flexible, right? And [00:44:00] likewise. But a lot of people like to know what the topic is going to be before they get there so they can kind of pre plan things in their mind. So if you're going to be doing a ritual one night. That's great if you're going to be discussing a particular topic that everyone's going to be involved in.

Tava Baird: That's great if you're doing an art project or you're cooking something. But do put that out so people know, first off, they can plan ahead because everybody's very busy. just going, Hey, is everybody free Friday night? You're not going to get, Your people together regularly and your group is going to fall apart, so give them lots of time to plan things out.

Tava Baird: You're going to meet the last Friday, of every month and share where the labor. People might say, Oh, I don't mind if we have it at my house every single week. You have to be careful because having things at your house Every time, a lot of times there becomes [00:45:00] food expenses, they're spending time cleaning.

Tava Baird: You don't want anybody building a little bit of resentment that, oh man, I feel like I'm doing everything for this group. I have seen many, many groups blow up that way. The ones that work the best is where everyone has a role that they're comfortable with and they share. So say you just want to get together.

Tava Baird: Celebrate the equinoxes and the solstices and, and Samhain and Beltane, make it so that one person is leading theBeltane ceremony, and they might be providing the candles and the flowers and things for that. And someone else is leading the Samhain ceremony, someone else is leading the solstice celebration, or the Yule gathering, so that everybody has a sense of responsibility, and they really do feel like the workload is huge.[00:46:00] 

Tava Baird: Also, just because people are in a group together that they might call pagan or they might call, metaphysical doesn't mean they all work with the same deities or invoke the same gods. Remember to give grace just because somebody decided to do Samhain with a Norse flavor this year, but you tend to follow something else.

Tava Baird: Give them grace. Let everybody express their particular style at the one that they're hosting. And if you have, if you allow things to be a little more eclectic, those groups tend to be much, much more successful. Everybody feels accepted. Everybody feels seen. And everybody is involved in the process. It's okay to have somebody who is the quote high priestess or priest of your coven or your group.

Tava Baird: Make sure that [00:47:00] it doesn't just become all about them and what they say. If you're doing mentoring, that's a different idea than just Then just getting together for a group. So specify our people in your group. Do you have some people who are new to this path and are looking for mentors to take them under their wing or not?

Tava Baird: Like specify. All of that. There are also people who just want to get together in a private chat group on Facebook and shoot the breeze. My experience with those is that there are tons of these pagan groups out there and none of them ever actually really do anything other than chat and that's fine, but if your goal is I want to get together and celebrate, I want to get together and deepen my practice, I want to have a study group, look at the people that are in your group And think, how can we balance this so that it doesn't [00:48:00] become, for lack of a better word, a cult.

Tava Baird: That it doesn't just become one person who has all the power and everything is about them. it's okay to have teachers and leaders in the group, but you also want to I also want to have a separate person who is earmarked for conflict resolution. Who should you pick for that? Well, if you have anybody in the medical profession, particularly a nurse, they are generally great at this.

Tava Baird: EMTs, teachers who work with small children. Social workers. Sometimes psychiatrists are good at this, but look around and see, is there someone in the group? Who is particularly gifted that when there is conflict, they can step in and mediate and put down in writing your expectations you have for the [00:49:00] group.

Tava Baird: Designate your conflict resolution person. From personal experience, I can tell you, I love to community build. I love to find a cause, get out there, put my back into it, and invite people to a very inclusive and open group where people of all races and orientations and backgrounds and genders are allowed.

Tava Baird: But what generally happens, there's a reason why witches split into two covens once they get more than about 13 members. Once you start getting above that 10 person mark, there's going to be somebody at some point who accidentally hurts someone else's healing. And what's really bad is when you don't have any process in place to deal with this eventuality.

Tava Baird: I don't care how [00:50:00] much you love these people, it's going to end, all right? And when that happens, you need to be able to turn to your, guidelines and say, We don't allow hate speech in this group. We do not allow people calling each other names on social media on this group.

Tava Baird: literally lay out, these are the behaviors that we expect people in the group to engage in. And if they are having trouble doing that, you need to get the two people who don't. Have the conflict who generally are decided not to speak to each other because they have no conflict resolution skills.

Tava Baird: Get that person who's good at conflict resolution into a private room with them I'm really on my soapbox today. We do not teach conflict resolution skills in most schools in this country. And so [00:51:00] most adults go into the workforce with nobody to rely on but the Human Resources Department.

Tava Baird: And often, the Human Resources Department has only been trained on how to fill out paperwork and tax forms, not conflict, we're not a real conflict resolution place. So, when you have a bunch of people who don't know how to peacefully work their way out of conflict, Your group is going to be in trouble at some point.

Tava Baird: Try to find that sage in your group. That person who is calm, who is centered, who is very good at using their words, and who doesn't take sides. This is the person that you will see on social media the least . In your life, and that's often a good way to find them who hates being online. They [00:52:00] often are the person who doesn't like that drama and wants to work very hard to help people find a peaceful resolution.

Tava Baird: So, get that conflict resolution guideline in place. It also makes it so if you do invite someone to your group who then starts posting things online or stirring up issues because they have different expectations, you have something to point to to say, we really wish you success on your journey, but this group is not the right place for you at this.

Tava Baird: It is okay to do that. It's very challenging, but it is okay to do that. Give everyone a role and everyone power in the group. That also helps to diffuse conflict of you're in charge, but now I want to be in [00:53:00] charge. Like I mentioned before, map out how to invite new members. I'm going to tell you a great method that I have seen covens that have been together for decades do.

Tava Baird: Here is what they do. So say they have, there's this one wonderful coven, and they are very education focused. In my opinion, Like, celebrating together is awesome, but an educational focus is really the driving force for covens or book clubs or what have you. People want to learn together. It's lonely to learn all by yourself.

Tava Baird: And to have no one to bounce ideas off of so when your group decides to be education focused, you have increased your chance for your success rate whole lot [00:54:00] look for speakers to come in and speak to the group. I do these all the time. I go to different groups. And I sit down and I teach one of my classes and invite questions.

Tava Baird: And then they get together after I leave and talk about what they thought of it. If you have people who are new to, the spiritual quest, you can pair them up with someone who is more experienced or even better, multiple people who are more experienced. So they get a well rounded taste. because as we know, no two people are on exactly the same path.

Tava Baird: So what these groups do often is someone finds out about them, gets super excited and wants to join. First thing that this group or coven does is they set up a meeting with two elders of the group, in a nice neutral place. Coffee shop or bookstore, whatever it is, [00:55:00] library, sit down and they go over everythingHi, our group is exercise. This is how many people we intend, like where we plan on tapping our membership or size we intend to be before we split so that nobody who joins the group is surprised if you do split off into smaller groups. Everybody in our group has a role. We do not discriminate based on and list all the people that you include in your group.

Tava Baird: We meet X number of times 

Jennifer Taylor: a 

Tava Baird: month or a year, whatever it is. What are you looking for? Interview them like you're going to offer them a job. Find out about their background. Find out where they see themselves in a year. If they come in and sit down and say, well, I've just always wanted to be a high priestess and [00:56:00] I'm really looking for a group that I can lead that's at least 40 people.

Tava Baird: If that doesn't match up with what you guys are doing, it's not a good fit, right? It isn't. If they come in and say, well, I'm just seeking, I'd like to have a regular practice around like minded people. I'm willing to volunteer. And for people who are looking for one of these groups, if they try to tell you it's hundreds of dollars to join, you need to run in the other direction, okay?

Tava Baird: Most of these groups are volunteer based. They might ask you to kick in and bring a casserole or buy your own copy of the book. Or maybe chip in five bucks for flowers and mead for the Beltane celebration, but this is a spiritual group. If they're asking you to sign a contract and give them 400 up front, you are [00:57:00] probably in a pyramid scheme, not a, not a good, healthy metaphysical group.

Tava Baird: Where is that money going? Right? but If their expectations and your expectations match, and the group and the new person like each other, then there is a probationary period. Okay? So, let's call our new member of the group Sam. Okay? So, Sam, has met at the Starbucks with two members of the group and they say, Sam, we really like you.

Tava Baird: It sounds like you really jive with our worldview. Our next large group gathering is at Samhain. We are doing a Samhain celebration at Susan's house, or we have rented a place in a park or what have [00:58:00] you.we would like to invite you to attend, not to lead it, not to, you know, teach anything at it, justmeet people and observe and join in a little right?

Tava Baird: You don't want to roll in and be like, this is Frank and we invited him to join the coven only to find out he's somebody's ex boyfriend, okay? That things did not end well, right? So they're just being invited. So then they come. They have a great time. Their tuna casserole goes on the table with everybody else.

Tava Baird: They're having a great time. They get to start meeting people. People start to get to know them. Maybe you invite them to somebody's birthday party after that. Or a tea party. Or a service project. Service projects are great ways to get to know people. You can see who really just wants to stand around, you know, dressed in black and talk about [00:59:00] themselves and who's willing to roll up their sleeves and put some good energy out there into the community.

Tava Baird: So, cool. You know, invite them to three or four events. Basically imagine that they're rushing a fraternity or a sorority people, okay? There's the meet and greet, and then there are events that are not the deep, dark, everyone bearing their soul events, but they're social things where people can get to know them.

Tava Baird: And then you start to get feedback from the other members of the group. How did you feel about them? Did you like them? Did you have private conversations? So then you have, once this person has, if it turns out, oh no, I've got an icky feeling for them, Oh no, they keep saying inappropriate things to other people in the group.

Tava Baird: Then you've only invited them to a few social gatherings. You can simply not invite them to other ones. And tell them, thank you so much. We hope you have a wonderful journey on your path. But [01:00:00] at this time, we don't feel that this is working for us. And it doesn't become anybody's fault that somebody got kicked out.

Tava Baird: However, if things are still going well, then generally after a couple of months, maybe three months or something, or four events, then you invite them to become a probationary member of the group. Most witches do that for a year and a day, right? So, for a year and a day, they join the coven, and they are now coming to each of the celebrations, any of the events that they want to.

Tava Baird: They are invited to participate, to contribute. maybe to teach a class if they're very experienced. Um, they are usually given a mentor or series of mentors who have similar interests to them. So you might have somebody who says, wow, I really love herbalism. Find them that herbalism [01:01:00] buddy who can mentor them in the group.

Tava Baird: Wow, I'm a musician and I would really love to compose some original music for our gatherings. Thanks. Put them together with the music people. They start to participate in a more full way. Generally by the time someone's been in your group for a year or in a day, now they're going to be initiated into the group.

Tava Baird: And it doesn't have to be we're, you know, doing a full ceremony sky clad in the woods and tattooing our names on your feet. They are simply now considered a second level member or a higher tier member where maybe they're one of the only ones. organizers of the events now. Maybe they become one of those people who goes and interviews new members.

Tava Baird: Maybe now they are offering classes. Maybe they are now apprenticing or sitting in with the conflict resolution person to see how things go. And [01:02:00] this is a gradual movement into a group. These groups Succeed. They make it. They are still off in there years later. They have low conflict. People feel invested and involved and supported and they are learning together.

Tava Baird: And so I would highly recommend, it'd be really exciting to do something like this. 2025 is my year, right? But try to take a couple of deep breaths and remember this is a pathway and relationships that you want to be on for a very, very long time. I have seen some very talented people who have no management skills, who don't have a second set of eyes on the books, and so people get suspicious about how money is being spent, who don't divide up the labor right from the beginning and people burn out, And I've [01:03:00] watched them start six or seven separate groups in a five year period and each one explodes spectacularly in flames.

Tava Baird: You don't want to be the person with the track record of smoke behind you. So just like you would if you were starting a business, think through what our guidelines are expectations. How are we going to structure ourselves? So that we don't end up as something I did once that didn't work. So that was an extremely enormous soapbox.

Tava Baird: Um, but things that I do wanted to put out there for you guys. I hope you find your wonderful, wonderful tribe and you are celebrating and growing together in the next year and, uh, that you don't end up as a scorch mark somewhere on Facebook. Um, and if there's [01:04:00] anybody who has questions about this that would like to reach out to me through the site, I'd be happy to let you, to talk with you further about this.

Tava Baird: we have so few places to gather in this community that we do want to make sure that the ones that we are able to form are healthy and productive ones. 

Jennifer Taylor: Thank you so much for joining us. You are a valued part of this community and we look forward to continuing this conversation with you next week.