Episode 19: Conflict Resolution Tool Box (Part 2)

Links:

Fantastic Conflict Resolution Ideas that are not just for kids!

https://www.perspectivesllc.com/shark-or-turtle-what-is-your-go-to-conflict-style/

https://www.blossomsmontessorischool.com/blog/conflict-resolution-in-montessori-classrooms

https://montessoricountryschool.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Conflict-Resolution-at-MCS.pdf

https://printables.montessorinature.com/peace-corner-montessori-conflict-resolution/?srsltid=AfmBOooPPvmOQbqLwLn1QLUL9hliQyTqltisv7btzlZNLQGurALMpCF1

Navigating Conflict in Metaphysical Communities

In this episode of Mystical Musings, the discussion focuses on effective strategies for conflict resolution within communities. Emphasizing the importance of creating structures for healthy conflict mediation, the hosts suggest appointing a designated conflict resolution person and establishing agreed-upon rules for mediation processes. The episode underscores the significance of maintaining a heart-centered communication approach, utilizing rituals like toning and affirmations to foster group coherence, and incorporating peaceful language and gestures. The episode also highlights practical approaches such as creating calming environments, understanding different conflict styles, and employing strategies for de-escalation. The importance of creating a sacred space and integrating spiritual practices into conflict resolution is emphasized as well.

00:00 Welcome Back to Mystical Musings

00:13 Healthy Conflict Resolution Strategies

00:42 Establishing Conflict Mediation Structures

04:44 Montessori Conflict Resolution Techniques

07:16 Understanding Different Conflict Styles

08:00 Real-Life Conflict Scenarios

12:19 The Importance of Communication in Conflict

20:26 The Silent Treatment and Its Impact

21:05 Handling Conflict in Relationships

31:49 Dealing with Aggression in Service Positions

32:57 Handling Aggression with Gratitude

33:32 Validating Feelings and Finding Solutions

34:03 Understanding Human Behavior Through Animal Analogies

35:08 Managing Aggressive Behaviors in Children

38:51 De-escalation Techniques in the Office

46:38 Creating a Calming Environment

50:44 The Importance of Self-Care and Conflict Resolution

59:23 Final Thoughts and Blessings

Thank you joining us today, remember to LIKE and SUBSCRIBE to keep up to date with your tribe.

Connect with your Hosts!

Tava Baird: tavabaird.com or https://darkflowerbooks.etsy.com.

Jennifer Taylor: Willow Ridge Reiki and Healing Arts https://www.willowridgereiki.com/

Transcript

[00:00:00] 

Tava Baird: Hello everybody and welcome to this week's episode of Mystical Musings. This is part two of a discussion that we started last week on rediscovering joy and building metaphysical communities. The discussion is going to continue with healthy conflict resolution. And so here we go back into part two of last week.

Jennifer Taylor: I think that is really wonderful. The, there are so many points that you made in there that I would not have thought about it.

Jennifer Taylor: And I definitely would not have thought about having a designated conflict resolution person in your group and from very early on. I think that makes so much sense and maybe even having an agreed upon kind of structure for how the conflict mediation is going to go where everybody sort of agrees, this is a structure that I'm willing to participate in, I'm willing to agree that I [00:01:00] will, maintain a calm, posture, we will not speak in elevated, loud tones with each other.

Jennifer Taylor: And, I agree that if there is a conflict, I'm going to. Be willing to sit down for conflict mediation and find a kind of heart centered way that we can, connect and communicate and, understanding that the reason that we're in this group is because we want to have this deep connection and this sacred bond.

Jennifer Taylor: And that can only happen if we all, agree because inevitably people, you're right. people get upset, people misunderstand each other. Things happen or somebody has a bad day. And, yeah, I think it would be nice. And I think there are probably lots of good structures out there that you could kind of Google and adopt of, okay, this is the structure that, we'll get together.

Jennifer Taylor: it will have a mediator, maybe state the overall problem as they see it, state maybe an end goal of, making it so that everyone is [00:02:00] feels. honored and respected and heard and there may be, certain things that you can build into it, even as a Almost kind of as a ritual of things, like there's something from a conference that John Philip Newell conference that I went to where when we would break into small groups, we would sit with our hand over our heart, and we would say, I am here and I am listening and just simple things like that, to where it's easy when we're really angry and frustrated or hurt or upset with someone to start with that, I want to make sure that I remember to tell them this and this and make these points and that kind of stuff, but to come into it from a state of hand over our heart, you know, center that and I'm here and I'm listening and, maybe even toning.

Jennifer Taylor: there's an incredible way they've done all kinds of studies on group coherence and that if you can begin anything with a group and have everyone [00:03:00] tone the same note together for, just 30 seconds to a minute. Everyone starts to come into this heart coherence together.

Jennifer Taylor: It's like you, you create and join up. It's like you all, kind of meet up on the same floor. on a building. It's okay, we each take different elevators. But by with that tone, we all push the same button and we all get off on the same floor. and when I say toning, in case that's confusing to anyone, it's literally like humming.

Jennifer Taylor: you could choose Om. Everyone could just, pick one note and somebody picks the note and says, well, let's just tone this together, Om, and do that, for, pick a sacred number. You know, of times that you're going to do this and just even doing that gets people breathing deeply because you're trying to take in a deep breath and then hold it as long as you can.

Jennifer Taylor: The group comes into coherence, then maybe, have your hand [00:04:00] over your heart and state, I am here and I'm listening. Take three deep breaths and then, you know, kind of going through, but I think establishing some kind of structure would help because depending on, you know, some groups may be so fortunate that they have somebody who's just naturally so good at conflict mediation that they can just energetically intuit exactly what needs to be, but not all like you said, most people are not really trained in that, and even less people are really skilled in that.

Jennifer Taylor: And so if you don't have that, kind of coming up with a structure that everybody agrees to, and that can be followed, takes some of the pressure off of that conflict mediator and gives everybody something to step into. 

Tava Baird: I talk about Montessori all the time, but one of the reasons I love Montessori is conflict resolution is an actual school subject that is taught starting, with very small children, they have a thing called the piece mat where they sit down [00:05:00] and they each hold a rose or a talking stick and take turns Sharing about what's going on with them.

Tava Baird: One of the things that we teach those children is to express themselves in I messages. And I don't mean E Y E like your eyeball, I as in yourself. A lot of times when we get into arguments or disagreements with people, we say, well you did blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and it automatically puts someone's defenses.

Tava Baird: But if you say, I felt that. I was being attacked. Well, I felt that no one was listening to me. I felt like something was being taken from me. If you can rephrase it into, just your personal experience tends to lower the blood pressure of everyone involved. [00:06:00] There may also be people who are slow burns, right?

Tava Baird: I am one of these people. If you make me upset, a lot of times, I can't speak with you right away about it. I need to go off and be quietly furious for a little while. And so you need to also look into the idea that just because someone says, I don't want to talk about it, that's not the end of the discussion.

Tava Baird: You shouldn't be like, then you're out. Say, when would you be willing? to talk about it. And until they're willing to sit down, have that mediation and discussion with the other person, they shouldn't be coming to lots of events. They shouldn't be coming to events until they can get to a place in their heart.

Tava Baird: Otherwise, it's just going to be tension. There are tons of resources online, and I'll put some in the notes, on conflict, Montessori conflict resolution, and in learning different people's styles of [00:07:00] conflict, and the way that they behave,and these are not long involved things to learn. There are little exercises, such as using iMessages.

Tava Baird: there is a wonderful thing where they talk about how people respond to conflict. And we teach the kids, some people are turtles. They pull into their shell and they just wait for things to blow over. Some people are sharks and they go into the attack. Right? And so there's all these different animal prototypes or animal types of the way that people deal with anger and conflict.

Tava Baird: And having an early meeting on these things, we will try to use iMessages When dealing with each other in difficult times, we will try very hard not to take conflict personally. I will tell you, 90 percent of the time, no one intended to cause offense. [00:08:00] I actually saw one of these things blow up a while back .

Tava Baird: Two people, misunderstood each other. One of them tried to reach out, but the other person was already mad and didn't want to talk yet. Person A then went, well, I reached out and they don't want to talk. I guess they don't want to talk to me at all. And both of them went into the silent treatment. And then things got bad because both of those people who were not speaking to each other

Tava Baird: started to talk to every single person around them, which meant before you knew it, the whole group had decided whose side they were on, despite the fact that the conflict had nothing to do with them. They didn't even really know what the original argument had been. Now they were involved.

Tava Baird: And oh no, one of them [00:09:00] went on social media and said, if anybody has an issue with me, then blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. They didn't name names. Which meant everybody aligned with the opposing side assumed that the comment was directed at them. This became a giant and extremely humiliating public fight on social media.

Tava Baird: people swore they were leaving the group never to return. They went storming out of rooms and Aggressively logged out of their Facebook accounts. It was a mess. Eventually, it got bad enough that somebody phoned me and said, Oh my gosh, you need to take a look at this.

Tava Baird: Everything is falling apart in this group. so I put myself on there and said, if anybody needs [00:10:00] conflict resolution, I am happy to sit in a room with you and whoever you are upset with or who you think is upset with you and help mediate conversation. Contact me. And I'd just like to remind everybody that if you weren't one of the first two people involved in the conflict, you might want to not assume that everyone's mad at you.

Tava Baird: Well, we eventually got to the bottom of the fallout and realized that everybody in the group had assumed people hated them. Who actually had no ill feelings toward them whatsoever, but they were extremely online and it went . boom. So then we had the opposite problem. People were so embarrassed about how they had behaved.

Tava Baird: They didn't want to return to the group [00:11:00] embarrassed. And that's when the tears started happening, and then my role became trying to get people in the same room to reassure each other, that there weren't any actual bad feelings involved.

Tava Baird: All right. So this stuff can spread. the reason they were so worked up is the group was important to them and we want these groups to be important. They should be their spiritual support groups, but we also have to understand that a lot of us are coming into these groups with tremendous amounts of baggage.

Tava Baird: And Not a lot of skills sometimes at being able to set that baggage down. This is a place where people feel vulnerable. there's probably going to be people listening to this podcast who know me who go, Oh my God, she's talking about a group that I was in. I want to assure you this, that story I just told you was from [00:12:00] many years ago, but I have seen it repeat itself.

Tava Baird: Over and over and over. 

Tava Baird: this is a pattern that is out there. I mean there's a reason why therapists are needed in our society and it's because most of us don't have conflict resolution skills. So I encourage you, if you're starting a group, Google Montessori conflict resolution for children and I'll put some links in the, show notes, you will find some really simple techniques that even if you aren't starting coven or book club or, a celebration circle next year, they will help you out just in helping your children to work through conflict.

Tava Baird: Helping you and your,significant others and your friends to work through conflict. We desperately need these things in our society right now. And sadly, most of the time, it's just assumed we will somehow pick them up [00:13:00] somewhere along the way. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. And I think all of us need these conflict things, just like you said, we all experience conflict everywhere from going to the post office and,seeing someone blow up at the person behind the counter to, some way somebody may react to you at work or, there's always a time when you're going to need these kinds of skills.

Jennifer Taylor: And I think there are a couple of things that I came across that were really surprising to me in terms of conflict, resolution and ways that old ways that I was taught that I recognize are really different. And I love that. what you were saying about the turtle and the shark and things like that.

Jennifer Taylor: And it was, I was actually, it was a Donna Eden course and she was talking about, the different energy, energetic patterns and ways that people are built and. one of them, you know, in a conflict will make eye contact the entire time and, be more of that shark kinds of [00:14:00] things.

Jennifer Taylor: Not not that they're necessarily always attacking, but that they can maintain eye contact. They can constantly, they're able to think about very clearly their point, be able to make very clear, lucid messages and really like that courtroom lawyer kind of thing.

Jennifer Taylor: And then the other person, and this was, they were demonstrating this in a marriage. The other person, their energies, as soon as there was conflict, their energies got All scrambled. And they,they couldn't think, they couldn't remember, the point that they had.

Jennifer Taylor: It's not that they were,losing the argument in the sense of, one person's making all these points about whatever, and the other person couldn't counter it. It wasn't because they didn't have really valid points that the other person actually would have heard and agreed with, but their energy got so scrambled by the idea of the conflict.

Jennifer Taylor: they were not in a place to be able to think And so first they needed to do some things to ground and center their energy [00:15:00] again, and then they could access their, rational reasoning brain. And one of the things that she was saying is that the people whose energy get really scrambled and go into a very emotional place and can't really think and couldn't really hold up the other side of that, argument sort of position.

Jennifer Taylor: They cannot make eye contact in a in any sort of conflict. it's like the most cruel thing you could do is try to force that person to make eye contact. And I remember, as a kid and so many times as a parent, you're taught when your child screws up when you know, or when a child said that they must Just make eye contact with the other person or make eye contact with me.

Jennifer Taylor: Like how many times are kids told, look at me, look me in the eye, I am talking to you or, you need to apologize or whatever. Look me in the eye. And that it's really, [00:16:00] really damaging to people who have these different, these energetic makeups to be forced to make eye contact and to understand.

Jennifer Taylor: That also helped me to understand as well, one, if someone can't make eye contact with me, when we're having a discussion that is where people's emotions are really stirred up, that they're not being disrespectful. Cause so many were taught that if they care, if they're paying attention, if they're sincere, they will make eye contact with you.

Jennifer Taylor: And if they're not. We're taught that,they're blowing it off. They're not taking it seriously or they're lying and that's why they can't look you in the eye. but it's really important to, to recognize those, kind of symptoms of this is where they are 

Jennifer Taylor: I highly recommend not putting an insistence on eye contact because it can be really damaging and. And nearly impossible for someone who's in a really [00:17:00] emotional place to do. 

Tava Baird: Another thing that I really loved as a Montessori teacher is you always hear parents or people saying, I want you to apologize, right?

Tava Baird: And then what you would see is you'd see kids go, I'm sorry. And they're clearly not sorry, right? What they're trying to do is get out of the situation at this point because they're uncomfortable and they just want a resolution, right? When you say to somebody, well, I demand an apology or you need to apologize.

Tava Baird: they may not actually be sorry for what they did, they may have thought you deserved it because, they really feel that you were in the wrong or you injured them somehow.Insteadwe would have the children talk and we would help them talk if they didn't have the words and we would say, we do not allow hitting at the school. It is not peaceful If you hit, you know, Barney again, you will not be allowed to participate in whatever, because if you think about it, that's a natural consequence in our society.[00:18:00] 

Tava Baird: If I walk up to somebody on the road and I give them a good right hook to the jaw, what happens to me? Well, the police come. I am not allowed to participate, in society for a while there's going to be a penalty for what I have to do. I'm going to have to go see the judge. I might have to pay damages. You never know.

Tava Baird: I'm going to not be allowed to participate. That's the natural consequence in our society. So I would say, if you are aggressive towards him again, you will not be allowed to participate. I wouldn't say you need to apologize. you're not making them go back in time and perhaps lie about the emotions they had in that moment.

Tava Baird: Instead, you are looking for assurance from this person. Can you say, you will not make that choice again? And then the child would say, often say, I won't hit you again. They'll say, okay. And if you get into a situation where you feel like that other person needs a right hook, [00:19:00] what can you do instead?

Tava Baird: You can come get me and I will help you to resolve the situation. A lot of times people feel they're all alone in a conflict and they have no one to count on but themselves. And so they make a poor choice in resolving the conflict. What if you can say Our group does not tolerate hate speech or violence or shaming on social media or name calling or whatever.

Tava Baird: People who feel that they need assistance can contact person A, person B, person C, who will help them to bring their concerns to the attention of the other party so that a peaceful resolution may be found. But if you go into shaming of, say you're sorry. Instead, you're going to ask, can I get your [00:20:00] assurance that this will not happen again?

Tava Baird: Are you willing to work out this issue? And next time this happens, there is a way for you to get help before it escalates to this. And let's make those pathways very transparent. So you know what you need to do. Now you've found an actual way forward. So, language is a very important thing.

Tava Baird: I would also like to very quickly touch on the concept of the silent treatment, okay? This is something that comes up in our society a terrific amount. I heard a very dear person say well, I got mad at her and so I didn't talk to her for three days. Okay. The silent treatment is often rolled out as a power play.

Tava Baird: You're not giving that person space. It's generally used against someone who, doesn't like the silent treatment. And so you put it out there as a, well, fine, I am going to [00:21:00] withhold my affection and attention from you. Now, I'll give you an example. My husband is a quick anger burn and then he's done.

Tava Baird: So we will have a conflict about something, he will go, blah, blah, blah, blah, and then less than five minutes later he goes, I want a hug. Okay, I can't handle that, right? I end up getting upset with him a complete second time because he wants a hug. And then I feel like a monster because I am upset with someone for asking for a hug and clearly wanting to make peace.

Tava Baird: But the thing is, my husband says it's my deep amount of Scottish background in me. He says it's part of my stubbornness. I don't agree with him. It's something we also have conflict over . I can hold a grudge. Oh Lord, can I hold a grudge? I don't like being that person. It's just I, if something makes me upset, it takes me a long [00:22:00] time to process it.

Tava Baird: But there is a difference between knowing I'm not gonna talk to him. What instead I do, is I say to him, I am still upset. I can't process all of this yet. I still love you or I still care for you, but I need some time away. I promise I will come back and discuss this. Before bedtime, or in the next 24 hours, or whatever it is, right?

Tava Baird: So they know you're not twisting the knife You're not trying to torture them by cutting them out the silent treatment . You simply process hurt and anger differently than they do. he used to then get really frustrated with me. All I asked for was a hug, right? And then, yeah, you have a whole separate fight, right?

Tava Baird: So he has learned to gracefully, this is why we've been married over 20 years, he has learned to gracefully say, [00:23:00] Oh, I love you, but I'm going upstairs. And so there's time on separate floors or for someone to go take a walk or for someone to phone a friend or whatever it is. While I get myself to a place where I can discuss it without, ripping out his lungs.

Tava Baird: And then we come back and I say, I'm feeling a little better now. But he often says, what can I do to facilitate the discussion? And then we are able to have a discussion and work out our issue. So don't roll out for the silent treatment. Tell them you just can't talk right now. You're not being the bigger person in that silent treatment scenario. You're prolonging the hurt.

Tava Baird: And unfortunately, generating sort of a power move to win the argument to that. I actually used to work with someone. And she would say, well, they did this and so [00:24:00] I didn't speak to her and she often would not speak to people again and I thought, this someone I'm not sure I want to be associated with any longer and I ended up terminating the relationship.

Tava Baird: Instead, let them know, can't process this as fast as you have. Good for you that you want a hug three minutes after our discussion. I can't do that at this time in a healthy way, but I love you and I'm coming back. My underlying feelings for you have not changed. I understand that anger is a temporary emotion.

Tava Baird: unless it is really a deal breaker and you want some out of your life forever, but that's a whole different podcast. especially with children, You know, you don't want to withdraw love, feeling of love for each other. And you might say, well, that's ridiculous. Of course they know I love them.

Tava Baird: Children have very short life experiences on this planet. A lot of [00:25:00] times they don't understand. that because you're being silent around them or that you're angry with them, they don't understand that state isn't forever. So saying that out loud, you know, Ooh, I am so mad at you. I just need a break. 

Tava Baird: it's okay to be angry. with them. Just don't leave them hanging while you process that anger.

Tava Baird: children especially do not understand that this doesn't mean the end of your relationship and that's, that can be devastating to them and not something you probably wanted in the first place. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. And honestly, you know, I think as adults, We expect that the other person is thinking about in a conflict, they are thinking about things from the rational, well of course I still love them, I'm just really angry, but in these kinds of things, it's our inner child that tends to be the thing that responds, and I think so many times, An adult is [00:26:00] also likely to think they never want to speak to me.

Jennifer Taylor: They're never going to be my friend again. they don't love me anymore because ultimately it's that inner child. It's that hurt part of us that got touched. That is where we're responding from. We're not responding from our whole connected, authentic. when we're in those kinds of conflicts, we're most likely responding from that wounded inner child.

Jennifer Taylor: And I think if we can think of that when we think about each other, when we're in an encounter that is really highly emotional, that will be the greatest If you have no other conflict resolution skills at all, if you can simply remember that inside the other person, is a wounded child and they are most likely responding when someone responds in a [00:27:00] hateful, mean, sarcastic, uh, you know, facetious when they respond in some sort of biting way or some sort of hurtful way, it is almost 100 percent that something in them.

Jennifer Taylor: That is wounded got touched. It's like a I think of people as like burn victims And you know if someone's entire body is burned and you touch their shoulder you may have just touched their shoulder But it just caused such incredible pain that they are going to lash out to try to make sure that doesn't happen again And what happens is when we are interacting with each other, we accidentally touch those burned parts.

Jennifer Taylor: We accidentally, we don't have any idea that, mentioning something about the person's hair that day or their hair clip or, how they set the fork on the counter, that that somehow touching this, this unhealed wounded part of them. [00:28:00] And when we touch that, we get a response that is you know, does not seem appropriate to the situation, does not seem to make any sense and is really their wounded inner self responding.

Jennifer Taylor: I love that the statement hurt people hurt people. And the more violent, angry, aggressive, hurtful, behavior and the person, the more they are hurting and As much as we tend to think about, we're all naturally self centered, we get in a conversation and somebody says something and I know you were mentioning earlier.

Jennifer Taylor: it's like we take it personally and most of the time, almost, almost a hundred percent of the time. And in, in shamanism, they would say absolutely a hundred percent of the time it is not personal. What it is, is that person's, inner world be reflecting back, something that you [00:29:00] said is some on, it's some part of them that is getting reflected back in you that is touching then that hurt.

Jennifer Taylor: place and they're, they're reacting against that hurt, not really having almost anything to do with you. And it's so hard to imagine because the statement might be real, might seem really personal. You know, the situation may be. It's like, how could you possibly say that's not, you know, that's not personal, but ultimately it is just the person responding to something that hurt and they may not have the self awareness.

Jennifer Taylor: you can't necessarily tell the person that because they may not have the self awareness to recognize that in the moment. Maybe they can reflect on it later and come to that. But I think most people are not at that place. But when we can look at things that way, for me, it helps to most rapidly deescalate my own anger and frustration.

Jennifer Taylor: Because what [00:30:00] happens is rather than thinking all the things, it's like we tend to create these whole scenarios. I'm famous for having the hypothetical arguments in my head of what the other person is thinking. And while I bet they think and how dare they think and how, whatever.

Jennifer Taylor: It's all made up. You know, that's all my projection. That's all my projection of it. And if I can go to a place of, they would only be responding that way. If, if there's, if something is hurt. inside them. And especially, when you're in a group that we were talking about when you're in a group that matters, the responses may be that much larger because it matters.

Jennifer Taylor: if you're in a relationship or a marriage or,something and interaction with a family member or a child, everyone's responses are likely to be much greater. Because it does matter, and it's the fact that it [00:31:00] matters that makes it hurt so much. And when we can just kind of remember that.

Jennifer Taylor: if a random stranger passes you in Central Park and just like screams at you something, you may be, you know, it may irritate you or make you angry, but you're not going to be deeply devastated by it. if a parent or, you know, a family member comes up and says something like that.

Jennifer Taylor: It's gonna, you're gonna have a really different response. So if you can also look at someone else's response as the intensity of it, you know, may have to do with how much this relationship matters. And that's part of how, how deeply it's hurting, and how strongly they're reacting to something that may be something really, really tiny.

Tava Baird: I think that's an incredible point. I wanted to throw out that I think I used to use. So you mentioned earlier, the person who's yelling at the postal worker in the post office, right? There are a lot of people in service positions who end up getting the [00:32:00] brunt of, Aggression and anger that they did not generate.

Tava Baird: Um, and I know because I worked as a retail manager for years, and, retail is one of the places where people think they can just yell. There's that concept of the customer is always right. If you do get someone at work who is a little bit aggressive or their complain All the time. First off, you're probably looking at a wounded person.

Tava Baird: Okay. The person who annoys you the most is probably the person who's hurting the most, right? Now that doesn't mean you have to sit there and tolerate their behavior. You know, you might need to remove yourself from the situation or have a frank conversation with them. But one of the things that I used to do that was very disarming to people who would get, a little bit aggressive with me because they wanted to vent and they thought in that customer is always right world that they were allowed to kick at me, was to thank them.

Tava Baird: And someone who's trying to be mean to you [00:33:00] does not know what to do when you think them. So someone would say, I purchased this and it's damaged. And I would say, thank you so much for telling me that. I really appreciate that. From that, you can see them kind of blink for a second, right? It's very hard to be nasty to someone who is full of gratitude.

Tava Baird: Okay. And it also helped prevent me from escalating it. Well, I didn't do that. Why are you getting on my case? Right. And then they would say, well, you know, I want another one. Of course you want another one. Look at me validating their feelings. Right. Of course you want another one. I would want another one.

Tava Baird: I'm sure we can make that work. I hate to ask you to wait a little bit more. if you want to step over here to the side, I will handle that for you. Again, I'd like to thank you for sharing this problem with me so we can come to a solution together. See what I did? I just put them on my [00:34:00] team.

Tava Baird: It's going to be really hard for them. And if they are still able to be aggressive after that, We have someone who's really having a day.think about your dog. Okay. When do dogs grow? They grow when they're scared, grow when they're afraid of losing something. okay. When, you know, this is mine and you're going to take it.

Tava Baird: This is my person or my food or whatever things they growl and snap and bark when they are fed. Human beings do the exact same thing. We growl and snap when we are afraid. And so if we can reassure that other person, they have nothing to fear from us and that our goals are in alignment.

Tava Baird: You don't want to be in a conflict and I don't want to be in a conflict either. Right? That that can go a long way. Um, and a lot of times then later on, you guys can get into a head space where you're on the same team, you want the same thing, [00:35:00] then you can work out the issues that started it in the first place.

Tava Baird: So 

Jennifer Taylor: yeah, that's actually a, strategy I was going to share as well. When I was, I worked at, child help, which is a residential treatment center for severely emotionally disturbed and, abused Children. And one of the things we had to teach or that we had to take was a managing aggressive behaviors class that now I think they call it something else.

Jennifer Taylor: they were they were teaching those kinds of things. It was like, how can we how can we get on the same side of the situation? it was like anything that you could say to get on the same side.

Jennifer Taylor: And like you said, thanking them for bringing it to your attention so that you could do something about it. share with me more about, perspective, you know, what happened? Can you tell me more about your experience? And then from that, like you said, putting yourself on that same side,saying, You know, oh my goodness, well, if I thought that I was being [00:36:00] cheated, I would be really angry too.

Jennifer Taylor: I mean, that's a terrible thing, to have happen, somebody saying, you know, I'm so angry, whatever it is, if you can state from their perspective, because once they've shared their perspective, you know how they're looking at it. And so you can use those same things 

Jennifer Taylor: Gosh, if I thought that someone was coming to try to take my things or was trying to cheat me out of something, I would be really angry. I don't blame you at all for being angry. I would totally feel the same way. let's see if we can figure this out to see if that's happening. Because I definitely don't want you to be cheated out of anything.

Jennifer Taylor: I remember they gave us like extreme examples of they were trying to get us to not say no, and they were like, how can you, no matter what the kid is saying, find a way of saying yes, regardless of what it is. And so they were like, you know, a kid coming in with like, I'm going to cut you and be like, you know what?

Jennifer Taylor: You absolutely can. If you grow up and you become a really amazing surgeon and if I ever [00:37:00] need that kind of surgery, I am definitely coming to you and you can cut me open and fix it. And I was like, that is the most creative response to that I have ever heard. But it's like the most exaggerated extreme thing.

Jennifer Taylor: But I actually had to use it on a number of occasions because they were, very, very hurt. Individuals and so they would try to hurt, that hurt would come out. I think anytime you can try to come up with that way of Instead of the no and blocking kind of letting go of that.

Jennifer Taylor: my mom talks about it a lot. She was a child and adolescent counselor and talked about letting go of the other end of the rope. it's like when you're in a tug of war, you can't have a tug of war. If the other person won't hold the, won't hold the rope, you know? So the idea of, when somebody is coming at you and there's this battle of one of us is going to win, it's like, well, I'm not, even picking up the rope because I don't want one of us to win.

Jennifer Taylor: I want us both to be [00:38:00] honored and feel heard and valued and respected. And so I'm not going to get into the, you know, he said, she said, or you think, whatever, let's just join in a place of let's figure out how we can both get to that goal as opposed to winning. And I think so many times the goal in, some kind of conflict becomes how can I win?

Jennifer Taylor: I feel like I'm losing this or I'm winning. And the goal should be for everybody to come out of it, feeling honored and respected and heard. You may not agree. You may come out saying, Oh yeah, you know what? We disagree that we totally disagree on this, but I value, your perspective or your friendship.

Jennifer Taylor: we can go on with that just with the fact that we honor each other and don't have to agree. I 

Tava Baird: I have two other little hacks, I used time and time and time again. And they're really helpful especially if you're like in the office, where you're dealing with [00:39:00] lots of different personality types that you didn't necessarily choose to be around you all day.

Tava Baird: first is if somebody is starting to raise their voice, you go quieter. So what happens is the person's like, well, I want blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You start lowering your voice. Humans. Naturally, like if they hear people speaking more quietly around them will lower their voice and seem less aggressive 90 percent of the time.

Tava Baird: What ends up happening if you keep getting quieter, is they will automatically lower their voice to match yours. Or they will suddenly feel like they are shouting and become a little bit self conscious and start regulating themselves into a more civil tone.

Tava Baird: And we used to bring whole classrooms of children down like that. a lot of times you have kids would start to get louder and louder and louder. And the next thing you have is an adult shouting over top of them, Everybody lower your voice! Right? You just raised the decibel level in the room even more.

Tava Baird: Now [00:40:00] everyone's gonna shout. If instead you started walking up to the children near you and I'll say, let's try and experiment. You go up and whisper to three people, watch what's going to happen. And kids love this because they go up and try it.

Tava Baird: And then they notice everyone else lowering their voice. And they're like, what is this mad power I have suddenly developed, right? So you could get the room to come down much more quietly. Simply by lowering your own tone. The other thing is, Jen, you were talking about wanting to be on the same side. A lot of times physical barrier can add to people's psychological idea that they're on opposing sides.

Tava Baird: So for example, if I was meeting with a parent, and I mean think about if you go in and sit down across from your boss's desk, there's a physical barrier between you that basically says I'm on one side and this is my space and you're on the other. Imagine how different it would feel if when your boss was [00:41:00] about to give you your performance review instead, they picked up their chair, moved it around to the same side of the desk as you when sat next to you while explaining it, right?

Tava Baird: They're sharing the paper with you. They're sharing the space. Suddenly they feel friendlier, right? There isn't that barrier. If you're working in retail and a customer is on the other side of the counter reading you the riot act , walk around the counter and just sit with them on the same side of the counter.

Tava Baird: If I had parents coming in for a meeting that I know was going to have information in it that they didn't want to hear, I would do that parent teacher conference. Sit right here next to me, guys. I've got stuff to show you. And I would basically put myself on the same side of that table, or counter, or barrier, or what have you, with them, right?

Tava Baird: Now, it's a [00:42:00] discussion among equals. It's a discussion among people who want to help. Rather than people who want to keep themselves in a different space. So if you are having an argument with someone across a barrier, whatever it is, you know, maybe you're inside the car and they're outside the car, get out of the car and talk to them about it that way.

Tava Baird: You know, invite them to sit next to you on the sofa. Remove those barriers and a lot of times that can also deescalate what's going on and they won't even know that you heard it from us and suddenly it's all manageable. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yep. And also making like levels as well. if they're sitting down, and you walk into the room and you're standing, whatever you deliver is going to have this energy of this feeling of, I am above you.

Jennifer Taylor: I am on a different level and I'm talking down to you. so like she said, sit down. next to them, not across or like [00:43:00] taking a walk with someone is a wonderful way to have a conversation, especially challenging conversations. We used to take walks a lot like with our older children that were teenagers and we would know that it was going to get really, kind of heated.

Jennifer Taylor: If you can take a walk, you're both,next to each other. You're not facing each other and you're both moving in the same direction together. And there's something really interesting that happens to us when we are both moving together in the same direction and talking about something, even if we're really seems like we're on opposite sides of something that next to each other, moving forward in the same direction can be really powerful.

Jennifer Taylor: My husband was having to renegotiate his contract and, you know, negotiations and things like that can tend to be really stressful. And thankfully the person that he was going to be talking to and negotiating, they decided to walk.

Jennifer Taylor: And so they [00:44:00] went out of the office and went and just took a walk around the area and talked and got the really challenging stuff out of the way through talking. And it was easier for both of them. It was like, oh, and they were outside. They were getting some fresh air. You know, it, it created this sense of, working together, working forward.

Jennifer Taylor: But yeah, I love that, removing that barrier. And I know we just finished having a couple episodes of talking about, balance and energy clearing, reviewing some of those things, before you have the conversation before the conflict mediation conversation, or whatever it is, if you can use some of those balancing strategies, the things that help to center and ground you and also clear your energy because you may be reacting to something that is not actually having anything to do with them.

Jennifer Taylor: You may have picked up a spirit attachment or they may have picked up a spirit attachment. if you can include something that is [00:45:00] clearing first, You know, maybe pick one of the energy clearing, energy hygiene things and do before you sit down together or when you sit down, down together, maybe seining, or, spritzing the air or playing the piece and release in the background.

Jennifer Taylor: Also a really good thing. I know we talk about that, recording that I have on the website all the time, but I have played that in the background during, before and during recording Really can potentially really contentious conversations, and it really helps to deescalate because anything that's there any sort of energies that are there intentionally pushing your buttons egging you on.

Jennifer Taylor: Or the other person on will get,released and removed. And that will help considerably too, because sometimes there are additional energies. It may be in the space that you were in where somebody just had an argument and then you guys walk into it and all of a sudden. people can feel really [00:46:00] irritated with each other and feel that energyof conflict in there, and it may not have had anything to do with either one of you.

Jennifer Taylor: So the other thing is, in your spaces or in your groups, make sure to cleanse the areas regularly, and especially after any kind of conflict, do, one of the, many ways that you can clear the energy. But it's amazing how those things stick around and then can create, be like Energetic instigators for other situations that never ever would have happened to begin with had it not created that kind of energetic, framework for those kinds of conflicts.

Tava Baird: Absolutely, and looking at the space where you have these discussions, somebody always getting pulled into the living room when they're in trouble. so it's just going into the living room now sort of a thing that they avoid. I had a job many years ago where literally my entire job every day was giving people bad news.

Tava Baird: I worked for a tutoring company that did diagnostic testing. [00:47:00] So people would come to us and say, my child is failing in school. I don't know what to do. We would perform, multiple hours of different diagnostic tests. And invariably there was a reason they weren't doing well in school.

Tava Baird: They were several years behind in math facts or they didn't recognize sight words or they had no inferencing skills or what have you. And so my job was literally 10 hours a day, four days a week, sitting down with worried parents and showing them test results that were not good, explaining them, and then having to tell them that to fix this was going to cost many, many hours of their and their child's time, which nobody wants to do.

Tava Baird: And would, and all of that tutoring to catch them up was going to cost thousands of dollars. I was literally the bad news woman, right? Now, one of the things that I did in my office, I mean, I was giving bad news [00:48:00] and people were crying. there were ways to fix this. There were things we could do, but it was going to be a hard slog, right?

Tava Baird: so I set out to make my office a better place. the most calming place I possibly could. I had plants everywhere that I kept very healthy. I kept fresh flowers on the table. I would play soothing music in the background. The office had come with the overhead fluorescent lighting. I turned that off and put lamps with soft lighting into the space.

Tava Baird: I hung soothing pictures on the walls. Dr. Bronner's makes a wonderful lavender cast steel soap. Lavender is very calming to a lot of people if they're not allergic to it, and I would scrub my desk and the windowsills and everything with that lavender so that when people walked in, I mean, they were already bracing themselves, right?

Tava Baird: They would come in going, this is going to cost time, this is going to cost money, this is going to [00:49:00] cost sanity, I don't want to hear this, but at the same point they knew they needed to to solve the problem, I would have them come into the most soothing office I possibly could. I kept my tones low and even.

Tava Baird: I would ask them if they needed breaks or water. I had tissues on hand. I would move my chair around that desk to sit with them whenever possible. You know, I don't want to say I was good at my job, but I was good at my job, like we got the kids the help they needed, the parents made it through, we had a lot of successes, and I kept my sanity in having to be the bad news lady all the time.

Tava Baird: just looking at that environment,are you having contentious Zoom meetings in your office every single day? Like Jen said, cleanse that space. And, I don't know, you'll notice in certain offices that when people have to have rough conversations, there are certain rooms that are their favorite.

Tava Baird: And they're generally the rooms that [00:50:00] feel warm, that feel comforting, and where someone who is good at conflict mediation spends a lot of their time. look around your office and think, maybe for the holidays, what I give myself is, good music. And, good plants and gentle lighting and, some good herbs or, incense that I can run through every now and then is the office clean, is clutter building up tension in you so that when you sit down?

Tava Baird: To get on your meetings, you are already in place where you're ready to snap someone's head off you know, and give yourself energetic breaks during the day. 

Jennifer Taylor: These are 

Tava Baird: all of our, our suggestions for you. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. I have one other thing that came to me when you were, talking and we were talking about, the energetics of a space and, the conflict and the things that come in.

Jennifer Taylor: One of the things we can do too, is give. A place and especially, you know, given that a [00:51:00] lot of the, the communities and the things that you were talking about creating, are spiritual communities and a lot of the instances and in this podcast that we're talking about that. the more we can make the whole event a spiritual event, this is a spiritual, a sacred thing.

Jennifer Taylor: This working out of conflict, this removing of barriers between us and these kinds of things, the more you can have that kind of attitude about it. The. The more it sets the tone for the entire conversation, but you can also consciously have create a space for, the unhealed energies to flow during the conversation, and you can do that intentionally.

Jennifer Taylor: You can have, maybe a space that's, in between you in the center of the room. and ask that, mother earth, create like a portal into the earth to suck down and to draw down into it. Anything that is unhealed that the earth [00:52:00] is willing to take in and transmute and ask that a portal to the skies be open above that, where anything that is best sent into the light to be healed and transmuted, be sent into the light and that as a A center and you could even have a piece of selenite and a piece of black tourmaline right up next to each other, maybe in the center, creating a place for these energies as they're being expressed a place for them to go.

Jennifer Taylor: And this intention, it really helps. And sometimes if I'm not in a place where I'm able to be on the same side or for whatever reason, it's necessary that someone's across from me. I imagine this, I, I guess it's not so much imagine as in invoke and create with my consciousness a column of light between us and I, see that everything that's being said is coming through that veil of light or getting sucked up or that, The [00:53:00] unhealed parts of that are getting sucked up into that light and getting transmuted and only the pure information from it is coming through to me.

Jennifer Taylor: that can be really helpful in helping to just create that thing that sorts through what is the anger and the emotion versus what is the real true message. 

Tava Baird: Like a spiritual Hoover. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah, it's like, it's just like that filter, or like a spiritual HEPA filter. 

Tava Baird: Yes, up it goes. Yeah, it could 

Jennifer Taylor: be either one, because yeah, sometimes I'll imagine it as this giant, yeah, just like Hoover, like sucking sort of energy that sucks everything up.

Jennifer Taylor: And sometimes more like that HEPA filter that's just catching all the, catching all the miscellaneous stuff and allowing the pure air to come through. 

Tava Baird: On that note, also, the, so the lovely Montessori school that I used to work at, in every classroom, we had a little something called the Peace Corner, and it would usually have a comfy chair, or a beanbag, a fuzzy blanket, and a [00:54:00] little table that had things like, a little finger labyrinth.

Tava Baird: perhaps, some fidget toys, those lovely, like, water filled toys that you can find where you just sort of watch the bubbles and chill. A lot of times we would have, a little fish in a fish tank there. Watching fish naturally lowers your blood pressure. We would put some inspirational books there.

Tava Baird: And anybody who was having a rough day, like you'd have kids that would come out of the car that had a conflict with their parents or were just missing somebody or just you're having that day, they could go into the peace corner and wrap themselves up in a blanket and sit down with the book and everyone would leave them alone.

Tava Baird: And you could see, Oh, so and so's having a rough time. I'll check on them later. a teacher might walk by and say, I just want to let you know if you need anything. I'm here. And these children were able to write [00:55:00] themselves over time, but it also gave you a visual image of those needing a little bit of extra help or a little extra love today.

Tava Baird: And it was a place that these people, these children could retreat to. I saw one classroom that was great, they had a little tent put up. So you could climb into the tent and process what you needed to process. Setting up something like this, I highly encourage parents to set something up like this, In their homes, especially during COVID because you suddenly had families that weren't together all day long together in one small space under pressure, trying to still do their work while they were worried about things.

Tava Baird: And just seeing that dad is in the peace corner with a teddy bear lets you know a lot about what dad needs today, right? That we need to be gentle with him today. He's having a rough time. So it's okay for adults to use it too. One school also had this beautiful, down by the pond, they had a ring of pine trees.

Tava Baird: And [00:56:00] hidden inside the ring of pine trees was this little cabin. It was a one room, little tiny meditation cabin with a wood stove in it and two Adirondack chairs and some blankets and a little shelf of inspirational books. And we would invite parents, you know, you drop your child off. You're having that day where you just want to sit and stare at a wall, take your coffee or we'll make you some or your tea or whatever.

Tava Baird: go down to the cabin. When adults would go down there and put themselves in the cabin and light the wood stove and toss in a couple of logs and just sit and listen to the birds sing outside or take their knitting or read a book or just have a good cry where nobody could see them. They didn't have to worry about anything.

Tava Baird: When they felt like they could pull themselves back together, they could, Put out the fire, and clean up after themselves, and leave, and start anew. [00:57:00] it's okay to make yourself little peace corners. I know a lot of parents who don't have anything like that, and so they hide in the bathroom.

Tava Baird: and you still have, like, the cat trying to reach under the door, or the kid banging on the door looking for a snack, You need peace too, and you shouldn't have to fake urination to get it. having code words to let, your children know, I need a little break. to ask people in your family for a little break.

Tava Baird: the children grow up with the, and adults grow up and exist in the expectation that the people around them never need a break and never have a bad day and never need to process anything. They're going to expect that from the whole world and that's not how the world works, right?

Tava Baird: They also think, I can't show my emotions. I need to keep going at all costs. if you never show weakness, the people around you are going to forget that they can show weakness too. And I don't say weakness in a negative way. Weakness is part of the human [00:58:00] experience.

Tava Baird: There are times when we are strong and there are times where we need to sit down and regroup and asking for that is a completely allowable thing. 

Jennifer Taylor: And a really good thing to model, really, really good for everybody, for your friends, for your family, for your children. 

Tava Baird: even Superman has kryptonite, right?

Tava Baird: But if you try to be the superhero every day, then people are going to think they need to be that too, and we're not designed that way. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah, I was just, it's funny, last night we were just watching the, 2018 version of the Grinch and it really struck me what you were just saying about, we think so much so often that it's our job to just be the never failing, hero kind of thing.

Jennifer Taylor: And the child in that, the big thing that she wanted was to ask Santa. To help her mother because she was always everything for everyone, and she saw how hard it was on her and that she never got a break and never got anything for [00:59:00] herself. no matter how good we are at being that everything for everybody constantly going, you know, our Children, our family, other people are noticing the toll and, ideally, we want them to see.

Jennifer Taylor: Yes, they work really hard for us. And, wow, look at the model they set for self care and that's something that I can follow. 

Tava Baird: So this holiday season, what we would like for all of you is to take care of yourself and to not be afraid of conflict and to not be afraid to look at it as a positive thing that means people care.

Tava Baird: wow, we're having a conflict. That means this other person is invested enough in this relationship to fight for it and to fight for themselves. These are good things. Now, let's see if we can get on the same side. And to circle all the way back around to the beginning of the last episode, it never [01:00:00] hurts to sing together.

Jennifer Taylor: Absolutely. And speaking of singing, I will invite, as always, Michael and Samuel to sing with and in and through me to all of you. to help to bring this to whatever close is in all of our highest good.

Jennifer Taylor: [01:01:00] [01:02:00] 

Jennifer Taylor: 

Tava Baird: That was lovely. Thank you so much. And I just have a little note from Samael, go forth and bring joy and know that wherever you are, whatever path you must tread today, we are with you. I believe he is speaking of angels.

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah, absolutely. 

Tava Baird: Thank you so much for listening, everybody. Thank you, Jen. And now I'm going to go out and try not to get in any conflicts. 

Jennifer Taylor: And you have all of your, skills and your energetic hygiene tools and your balancing centering abilities and your perspectives and skills and all of those things to use.

Jennifer Taylor: Thank you for bringing through so many wonderful. group, organization ideas and how to do that so that so many people can go out there and, create these amazing groups and ways and places for people to [01:03:00] gather. 

Tava Baird: Gathering is a big thing at this time of year, and now, I feel like I have my metaphysical suitcase packed and ready.

Tava Baird: Let's do this. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yes. Conscious gathering. 

Tava Baird: Conscious. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yes. So, may all of you be blessed. Thank you so much for joining us this week and every week. We are really blessed to have you as this really sacred community. Absolutely. 

Tava Baird: See you soon everybody. 

Tava Baird: