Perspectives on Death and the Spirit World (Sacred Dark Part 2)

Embracing the Sacred Darkness: Exploring Death, Spirits, and Ancestors

In part two of the Mystical Musings podcast episode on embracing the sacred darkness, the hosts continue their discussion on death, spirits, and the afterlife. They share personal experiences with embodied and disembodied spirits, including encounters and the presence of ancestral spirits. Samuel's insights reveal that death is a transition rather than an end, and spirits may choose to stay for various reasons. The podcast also touches on preparing for death, honoring ancestors, acknowledging the work of spirits, and the importance of living soulfully to ensure a good death. Ultimately, they emphasize recognizing the divine nature of the spiritual realm and striving to live well and die well.

Thank you joining us today, remember to LIKE and SUBSCRIBE to keep up to date with your tribe.

Connect with your Hosts!

Tava Baird: tavabaird.com or https://darkflowerbooks.etsy.com.

Jennifer Taylor: Willow Ridge Reiki and Healing Arts https://www.willowridgereiki.com/

Transcript

[00:00:00] 

Tava Baird: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Mystical Musings podcast.Today we continue our discussion on embracing the sacred darkness and perspectives on death, what you're going to hear today is part two of an episode that we began last week. In this episode, we will be talking about our experiences with the embodied and disembodied and also reaching out to Samuel for his perspective.

Tava Baird: Thank you for joining us today. 

Tava Baird: 

Jennifer Taylor: So I have two things. One, I want to, I have a thing that I want to mention and then and ask Samael about and then I have this real, which I guess is also something probably asking Samael about I have this really ice cold pressure bar across my back, like, I don't know, my upper chest, but in the back.

Jennifer Taylor: And as we're talking about it, it's getting cold. Like if [00:01:00] you told me somebody put icy hot, like a big heavy amount of icy hot across my back, I would be like, well, of course you did. That's why it feels so intense. And. So I felt like, all right, this has to mean something. So I'm just wondering if he has any insight into that.

Tava Baird: Where is it? Is it like across your shoulder blades? 

Jennifer Taylor: let me see if I can point to it. Yeah, it comes across here.

Tava Baird: I'm curious to see what he says. So Samuel, Jen has,does it feel like a touch he wants to know, or is it a bar? 

Jennifer Taylor: It's a bar. it feels like a bar, like about maybe.

Tava Baird: Two and a half inches tall and going all the way from one side to the other, or almost all the way from one side to the other. He has now said two times, spirit, spirit in the house. And I'm reminded of the story [00:02:00] you told me on a Marco about that vase. Um, so I should explain myself. And the other thing that it reminds me of is, um, So I had an experience at the Blue Ball Inn a few weeks ago with a spirit that touched me in, on the back and it was cold.

Tava Baird: And it's interesting to me. That was what made 

Jennifer Taylor: me think about the cold. I was like, this is so cold and we're talking about death. We're talking about these things. And 

Tava Baird: I was like, we're talking about death. And, um, one of the things that I am starting to, hold on, someone else talking again. He says, just want to know you feel them. So I do 

Jennifer Taylor: feel them. I can say that. 

Tava Baird: so Jen had a paranormal [00:03:00] experience in her house, the other, I guess, how was it? Like a week ago? Yeah, probably. Yes. And, one of the things that, I am starting to learn from Samuel as I start to spend more time around spirits is that a lot of times the spirits, first off, if they know you are sensitive to them, they tend to flock to you.

Tava Baird: Because can you imagine if, um, you suddenly realize someone can hear you. Or can sense you're there a lot of times they just want to come and have someone acknowledge that they are there and they don't necessarily want you to do anything or want to frighten you but they will at times just try to get your attention.

Tava Baird: And so one of the things that I've started doing is especially as I'm starting to have more experiences. Transcribed at [00:04:00] the Lovely Haunted Tavern where I do excavations, um, is when I feel something on me like that or near me is just to say, Hello, I know you're there. I recognize you're there. And then just say something kind to them.

Tava Baird: And sometimes it goes away. Jen has had a lot of energy going on in her house in the last several weeks. And She's been trying very hard to get things settled again. There may be a little something passing by you, Jen, that is just trying to get your attention. Is it still happening? 

Jennifer Taylor: It is.

Jennifer Taylor: It's getting less intense. It's getting better. it's not as cold. I still feel the presence but I keep saying,I acknowledge your presence. I acknowledge that you're here. And then my mind is going, okay, do I [00:05:00] do a spirit release, which would, which is calling angels, using, energy to help, to offer them the ability to,to transition up into kind of a higher realm.

Jennifer Taylor: and not be stuck on this plane and, that's typically what I've been doing. But then I know from the work with the inn that the spirits there get very offended by the idea, but that's also their house. and so I feel like this is less maybe likely to be quite the same way.

Tava Baird: Samael just said she will move on. She is thinking of you. She has work. I'm gonna ask him. So this sounds like it's a female spirit, or at least the spirit was recently. He says, Interested in your work, umshala. Drawn by the music. So this isn't malevolent or [00:06:00] no. Interesting. So, yes, apparently the music attracted someone who just wants to sort of hang out and see what you're doing, I guess. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. Well, and I wonder, cause he said the spirit in the house, I wonder if this is related still to the movement of the vase. 

Tava Baird: Yes. Will you please talk about the movement of the vase?

Tava Baird: Cause we both referred to it, but the people listening don't know . 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. Yeah. So, um, my husband came home from work and we were, both sitting at the table and there was a large vase of flowers, with, uh, good bit of water in it.

Jennifer Taylor: we were talking about someone having difficulty with communication in that there may be a lot of acknowledgments of hellos and goodbyes and thank yous and things that maybe they weren't picking up on because of other circumstances.

Jennifer Taylor: Andright as we were talking about that, I had my arm up on the table and was leaning in. And so the edge of my elbow was maybe just three inches from the base of the [00:07:00] vase and the vase suddenlyshook and made this deep sound that I'm not entirely sure how you could, Make even just by shaking the vase.

Jennifer Taylor: I don't know what could have even made it make that sound, but I felt the energy of it travel all the way up my arm and up into my body. And I was like, Whoa, Oh my goodness. And I looked at Keith. I was like, did, did you see that? Did you hear that? He was like, yeah, I did. Like you could not avoid it because he was looking straight at it and it was kind of to my side.

Jennifer Taylor: And then we got to thinking that what were we talking about in that moment? And it had to do with acknowledging and acknowledgement. And we were like, maybe this is, spirits or ancestors or some combination of things saying, yeah, like I get how frustrating it is to be there and be saying all these things and not being acknowledged.

Jennifer Taylor: And that that was this, Uh, this kind of message off. [00:08:00] Yeah, acknowledge me. I was really thrown by it because I could feel I was so close. I could feel the energy that went up me through that and from it, and he had just seen and heard it, but he wasn't quiteas affected by it.

Jennifer Taylor: And, so it took a number of days of trying to work through, are these ancestors in the sense of, guides that are trying to get our attention? Are these,spirits that are lost and are following my husband around from the number of euthanasias that he had had to do that day?

Tava Baird: And the gist that we've gotten from, Samael and Michael, is that it was a combination of all of those things. both you and your husband are so open in terms of, you've been channeling a lot of music and you've been bringing a lot of things through What, was told to me by somebody at the inn who has been able to see spirits since she was a young child is, she said, I don't know if you're aware, [00:09:00] but you start to walk through this house and there's a bunch of them kind of marching after you just like, Hey, because they're often attracted to.

Tava Baird: people are in a very positive mood and are feeling very optimistic. They,like that energy a lot of times. And, so, walking through a space where they think not only do you have the ability to acknowledge me or maybe hear me, but,you're also a really nice person to be around might attract some attention.

Tava Baird: And so I wouldn't be surprised at all, when you channel this music which you are bringingfrom a divinely inspired place into this realm that that might attract spirits in the vicinity.And, then they're walking by and giving you a little back massage.

Tava Baird: Here I am. I'm here. And, one of the things that I'm learning a lot more about is, but I always had this idea that spirits and ghosts, the ones that are, still here were, malevolent or they needed something or they were stranded or that it was a bad thing.

Tava Baird: Some of them [00:10:00] have chosen to continue doing certain kinds of work here and that because we are all divine beings, we are essentially our own ancestors. Like, that's a bad way to say it, but I'm gonna die. And I'm going to go back and become disembodied and be one of the ancestors. And then if I choose to incarnate again, my soul will come back down.

Tava Baird: But in the time that I'm in that other place, I. I'm going to remember all of the things that I've learned and all of my incarnations and have access to all of the knowledge that I've gleaned. And I'll be able to act as a guide if I need to, and that route is open to me. So that sometimes the spirits that are walking by are also ancestors.

Tava Baird: And it's not necessarily that, you know, they have this category. So that's one of the things that's been a challenge for me is I always thought, you watch movies, ghost bad [00:11:00] ghost lost and sad ghost trapped here, ghost paying for something. I mean, I love to watch supernatural as much as anybody, but, I think we need to take into account that some spirits have things here that they are doing and they're doing work just like we are or spiritual work just like we are.

Tava Baird: And so when they pass by, they just want to, Hey, other soul. How's it going, especially if they know that you are working on collecting knowledge and being part of the bigger picture. Now am I saying there are things we shouldn't be careful of? Oh, heck no. Be careful. I have learned the hard way to guard myself.

Tava Baird: That I need to wear protection when I go certain places and um, now after being around people who have a lot more experience in this than I do and they've pointed out to me, you, you tend to attract them and you don't realize that. Now that I'm aware of that, it's altered my perspective in terms of how I relate to them.[00:12:00] 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. Yeah. And I think the, idea of. not needing to be afraid of them. it's not an easy thing. but we also need to be holding the same kinds of boundaries that you hold with people that are incarnate, and we've talked about that, 

Jennifer Taylor: it's important to say I'm happy to listen to you when I'm in a place to do that, but you may not barge in, you may not utilize my body, you may not be within, you need to respect my autonomy and respect my boundaries and things like that. And so you ever feel like that's not being, respected, ask Archangel Michael, he's really, really helpful.

Jennifer Taylor: He's really good. And, there are some things I was wondering if Samuel could elaborate a little bit more, like give us a little bit more of an understanding of the, the souls that are walking around, the different types of souls that are walking around, it [00:13:00] seems some are kind of stuck almost in a loop of not really recognizing that they've passed and still so holding on to a trauma.

Jennifer Taylor: that they're just not moving past. And then there, it sounds like there are others that are choosing to do work here. anything that he can add to help us understand a little bit more of that full picture. And I think a lot of people fear then how do I make sure I'm not one of those people, I don't want to get stuck. Or what about my family member? You know, if someone died in a really sudden or tragic way or something,how do we live with that without having a fear and have a deeper understanding of the bigger picture? 

Tava Baird: So this is actually a major part of my education these days with Samael 

Tava Baird: And the other thing that I am learning is that, like you said earlier, languages is limiting. [00:14:00] And so, here's his response to what you just said. He said, and some are conscious, some not. Some choose to stay. Some visit. Some watch over you. So, we might need to because I think this is a massive what happens to you after you die topic for him.

Tava Baird: Um, we might need to ask like a specific question. Question here.what I'm getting from this is that, we think we're here, we're born, we live here, we die, and then we go to heaven or the afterlife or what have you. But,there are lots of places that don't necessarily fit into the alive or dead category.

Tava Baird: Hold on, he said something. Death is an event, not a state. 

Tava Baird: okay, so you're born, you live, then you have [00:15:00] a death, and we call those people the dead, but it sounds like he doesn't consider them the dead anymore. That's, yeah. Which makes total sense. He's talking about souls. Yeah. 

Jennifer Taylor: When you think about it, because our understanding is that, you know, we are an immortal soul who comes into a body and then, you know, leaves that body, but once we've done that, you know, if we considered After someone has gone through a transition of death as the dead, then we're all the dead because if there's reincarnations, like, you know, we've all been through that once.

Jennifer Taylor: So it's like, if you've been that through that once you would be the dead forever. It's like, yeah, you'd 

Tava Baird: be the dead forever. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. Even when you're incarnate again. Yeah. So yeah, that really makes sense. I like that he made that delineation of, we really need to stop calling them the dead. It's like, they're not dead.

Jennifer Taylor: And they just went through a transition from. one state into another, [00:16:00] it was just, a brief blip on the radar of their entire lifetime of their soul. it's just a changing of form. It's not a final, not a final thing that then puts you in a different category.

Jennifer Taylor: It's really more of a returning to your original state, to your purest state than it is a becoming something else. 

Tava Baird: Yeah. And it's funny because now I feel like we should title this podcast episode congratulations you're already dead. He says, death is walking through a doorway, a doorway to remembering. There are many kinds of doors. Some take you back to the circle. Some do not. I'm trying to remember if we talked about this. I have this memory because sometimes we do the podcast and then we end up talking for like an hour afterwards but it doesn't [00:17:00] end up in the final edit. But I think We were talking about playing music for people in hospice care or in hospitals.

Tava Baird: Yeah, and I can't remember. I'm gonna, I might be conflating you with Samuel. I can't remember if you said it or he said it, but we talked about the concept of that some of the people who are about to go through the death process are sometimes Not completely in their bodies anymore, but they've already started to shift towards another realm

Tava Baird: Was that you or was that him? 

Jennifer Taylor: It may have been a combination of both. I think, and I didn't remember saying this then, but I probably did that, that one of our daughters watching a euthanasia was talking about how daddy. had helped the animal out of his body and her being like, he was mostly out of his body already.

Jennifer Taylor: Like, daddy didn't really do that much. Like, don't be [00:18:00] thinking that he, did all that. he was mostly out of his body already. And, yeah, so I think we may have talked about that, that it is a Yeah, a process. that people come in and out, my understanding is that.

Jennifer Taylor: As a person is going through the process of, of dying, of nearing dying, that there's a lot of soul preparation that's happening. they're kind of processing and completing some of the work that they need to do as souls.

Jennifer Taylor: And that In that process, while you see their body, they're still breathing, they seem to be going in and out of a conscious aware state and a lot of times, like you said, the people are talking about or talking to other people that they see in the room that others don't.I guess one of my questions is what is happening?

Jennifer Taylor: And it seems like it's very clear, honestly, from watching and what people in hospices and having been with my grandmothers as they were in the process of dying, where it was clear that they were in [00:19:00] another realm for a lot of the time. And they would come back, it was like they would check back in with their physical bodies, but then go back out.

Jennifer Taylor: And part of why I bring that up is that the fear of dying, a lot of it involves the amount of suffering that is anticipated in the time when, the body is shutting down, maybe with chronic illness or, like that. And that It looks to the people from the outside like there is a lot of suffering based on what they witness the body doing, but my feeling is that they're not really necessarily always expereincing exactly what we think they are. 

Jennifer Taylor: the person isn't necessarily feeling all of that pain or feeling all that discomfort because they're not as attached to their body in that moment, or they're more on the other side of the veil doing work and that it could bring a lot of peace both for the someone witnessing a loved one [00:20:00] going through that and the fear of that happening for themselves to get a little bit of information, about that.

Tava Baird: So Samael says, and I think he's saying this in relation to, as you are nearing the end of your life. You become less anchored to time, less anchored to the material. You are moving about without confinement. It is another part of their journey. Death is a moment. The work starts before...... and I just said to him so you're talking about like it's a spiritual crunch time Like you've got this debt no pun intended this deadline coming up And there are things that you still need to resolve or do or explore, but as your body start separate from your soul your spirit can move in and out of your body, but apparently can also move around in time, which [00:21:00] if you think about the number of people who are approaching death, who think they are in a different period of their life than they are, that makes sense.

Tava Baird: as they've become untethered or less bound by the physical confines of themselves. And start moving more into the spiritual realm. They are now able to have experiences all the time that are akin to what we have when we might be in like a liminal dream state or something like that.

Tava Baird: But they're having that all the time as they finish up this work. Then sometimes the body expires and the work isn't quite done. And they might, still be moving around doing these things, part in and part out of it, that would make sense. So then what we might get is people [00:22:00] here still finishing their work, who are basically spirits that are walking around.

Tava Baird: And those might be ones who are choosing, like he said before, What did he say? Some choose to stay. Those might be the ones who are choosing to still be here and do things and they're a little more aware and they might be visiting. people who they're worried about, and going, Oh man, okay, you're sitting there crying over my body.

Tava Baird: I'm not in that anymore. there's all of these stories of people being visited by people who have passed on, but time does not mean the same thing to them at that point. that it means to us. So we might go, It's been six years since grandma Ethel passed on but I still see her in the kitchen all the time, but to Grandma Ethel that six years doesn't mean anything to [00:23:00] her.

Tava Baird: Because our concept of time and we've been told this,before in some of our angelic podcasts, that the concept of time off this earth is very different because they're looking at a much longer span of time. So whereas a decade seems long to us, it might not be long to them.

Tava Baird: And so, spirits that might working, but they're drawn to music or they're drawn to someone who can hear them. Or perhaps you are part of their work and they're stopping in to check on you. we all know people who have passed on.

Tava Baird: I know Keith has had something turn the lights off and on around him a lot lately. You may either have. Another spirit that is connected to you all that is someone that has passed on that is still here hopping in to make sure everything's okay.

Tava Baird: you may have,some of these spirits that, by the way, I don't think we've said it in this episode, Keith is a veterinarian. [00:24:00] So when you hear about the euthanasias, we should probably specify Keith is 

Jennifer Taylor: a veterinarian. That's kind of key information there. 

Tava Baird: Sorry about that. So now you know why, uh, he's been doing these lately.

Tava Baird: but, our brains, like we've talked about before, we like to put things in categories, but it could be any of these reasons. There could be someone who is about to pass on or someone who is passing on in the future and they're popping back in to see how you are.

Tava Baird: or to check on you, you may be part of the work that they're doing. So they're all, what I keep getting from Samael is that these souls are all ancestors in their own way, right? Some of them might be stuck in a little bit of a loop, and not be aware that they passed on, in which case they might need some assistance.

Tava Baird: Some may have chosen to stay [00:25:00] for a reason that is no longer relevant, but they're really trapped in their emotions and they're worried about something that is no longer an issue. I really felt like the spirit that I interacted with recently at the Blue Ball Inn was like this. 

Tava Baird: there's a particular spirit that I've been interacting with who seems very concerned about another, person in the house, and he does not seem to realize that that person is no longer living in that house. Or maybe there is another spirit in the house, but he is very much there for that other person.

Tava Baird: And, so, you might, have all of these different degrees of things that might be going on, and we can put them in the category of ghost, or spirit, or ancestor, or. relative, but because time has less meaning to them, often they're going to overlap categories. I will tell you one thing that I've started doing that's a little different.

Tava Baird: when I first started, practicing [00:26:00] witchcraft, I had found this lovely ritual. There's a fantastic book. I think it's, I'm not sure it's in print anymore, but it's called Magical Rites from the Crystal Well, and it's by Ed Fitch, I think, or Finch. And there was a newsletter out, I think in the 60s and 70s for pagans that was beautifully illustrated, and it was called, The Crystal Well.

Tava Baird: And over time, someone gathered sort of highlights or the best bits from these newsletters and put them together in this book. And I can still find the old version has a beautiful purple and silver cover. I always hunt for them on eBay to try to get my hands on them for my students.

Tava Baird: But for many, years I did a version of the ritual there. to release the dead whenever I saw an animal at the side of the road. And I also, because I hadn't really gotten into accepting the sacred darkness yet at that point, whenever I would see vultures or crows at the side of the [00:27:00] road where there was roadkill, I would always have this feeling like, oh, leave that body alone.

Tava Baird: as though the spirit was still in that body. And what has changed over time, especially after I started working with the Morrigan, is now I realize if those ravens and crows aren't there to break down the physical remains of the body, if all of her roadkill just sat out there, we would have disease and, and horrible stuff.

Tava Baird: There'd be decaying things. Everywhere, these vultures and crows and ravens that, show up where there are dead bodies are part of the cycle of life. They're breaking down the body and allowing it to return to the earth. So then after I started doing work with the Morrigan and realizing this is that they weren't preying on something and they weren't being disrespectful.

Tava Baird: Now, when I see them, I always thank them. I'll say thank you so much, for keeping the [00:28:00] cycle going. Thank you so much, because they are the emissaries of the Morrigan. And, the other thing that I started doing was rather than feeling like I was solely responsible to open up a gateway and try to move a soul through, that that might not be what that particular spirit or soul wants.

Tava Baird: So now I have a much more shortened version where I call in Samael and say, there's something there, and, I, I hope it's found peace. This one day I felt so bad. I was driving down the road and someone had hit a squirrel and the squirrel was still alive.

Tava Baird: my first instinct when I see something in the road is you swerve around it. But as I drove past it, I realized the poor thing was still alive, and it was suffering. And so I got off on the first turn I can, and I went back, and I remember thinking, Oh my god, Jen, I know I left you a Marco [00:29:00] about this at the time, and I think I was crying in the Marco.

Tava Baird: But I was like, I'm gonna have to hit it. I can't let it suffer. I need to State where it is no longer and for those of you listening, I spent quite a bit of time among a lovely Zen Buddhist group and no suffering is my sort of my mantra. And of course, I also didn't want to drive over something and end its life, but I wanted it not to suffer.

Tava Baird: And I remember as I was driving back down this country road thinking, I'm going to have to drive over it and I don't want to do that. Instead, I said, Samuel, can you help me out here? And I got back to the squirrel and it was already gone. Someone else, I believe, or I don't know what happened, but it was already gone.

Tava Baird: And I just remember hearing him I've taken care of it. And so now what I tend to do is, because I don't fully understand the journey that these souls are on, and I can't think like a deer or a rabbit When I see them [00:30:00] there, I just say, help them to find peace.

Tava Baird: And I put it in his hands. I give it over to the Angel of Death. And, it has helped me find peace and also me find the strength to turn around and go back and say, in some cases, I may need to do the hard thing. I may need to be an agent of the sacred dark. I may need to end suffering. Let me move forward in that and not be afraid.

Jennifer Taylor: that's beautiful. one other thing that I was thinking to have comment on is the processes of, death and maybe to help to ease the minds of those contemplating it. 

Jennifer Taylor: All right, give me just a second.

Jennifer Taylor: See what comes through. I don't want to startle you, but I have a song that's playing in my head. So I figure I may as well do it out loud in case it's helpful. Oh, 

Tava Baird: that sounds [00:31:00] wonderful.........................................................

Jennifer Taylor: Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, [00:32:00] 

Tava Baird: what Samael said in response to your question is prepare and make plans now and accept that death may come at any time.

Tava Baird: And with regards to people who have passed quickly, he says, they may still be working, may still be here. We greet them. Sometimes they cannot accept. Remember that time is different for them. And for the thing that we're supposed to do is accept them, acknowledge [00:33:00] them. for listening. Make them part of your world.

Tava Baird: This, this will help them turn towards home. So I think what he's talking about here is say there is a very sudden death. And the opportunity to move on is presented. Those people may be much more likely to say, Whoa, I have unfinished business. You know, like I didn't get time in and out of my body.

Tava Baird: I didn't, I didn't have time to sit down with my loved ones. I don't, and you see this trope in movies all the time too, like this unfinished business idea. We're all always going to have unfinished business. That's why I think a lot of time, a lot of that unfinished business is the search for knowledge, which is why a lot of us choose to keep getting incarnated again and again and again.

Tava Baird: But that I guess these souls that go quickly may have, the greater chance of wanting to spend some more time [00:34:00] here. And that rather than be fearful of them, we need to accept them. And when we feel that they are here. acknowledge that they are here and talk to them. This is not something that is normalizedin our society.

Tava Baird: I feel like I want to make a bumper sticker that says, normalize talking to the dead. I guess that we've just decided they're not the dead. Normalize talking to the, talking to spirits, right? when those things happen, people are mostly concerned about what will happen to the people I leave behind.

Tava Baird: And so. If you can show them thatyou're going to be okay and that you accept that going through the transition of death is something that we all do. And you can celebrate them and their life and their memory and the work they did here and acknowledge them, but that is going to put their mind at ease where [00:35:00] they don't feel like they have to be here and be responsible for things anymore because you're going to be all right.

Tava Baird: I'm going to tell. a quick story. I know it feels like, it's like dead animal podcast between, talking about euthanasia and roadkill. And now I'm going to tell a story. I'm sure I've brought this up before, but I have a book called Book of Samuel, which has a lot of my conversations with him from the first six months that I was aware he was in my life.

Tava Baird: He says he's been here since I was born. And before that, But, the first six months that I was aware he was around, I transcribed almost all of our conversations and I put them in this book. And one of the events that happened during that time period is my dog, got very ill and I had to take him to the vet.

Tava Baird: And the vet basically said, He, is horribly wrong with his spine. It's probably cancer and it's gotten to the point where he will not be able to walk again. [00:36:00] And like I said, I am all about no suffering. And so it, it was time for him to move on and I'm not going to go into all the details, but I was very glad Samuel was actually in the room for me and with me during this time and I was asking for help.

Tava Baird: in helping my lovely sweet dog to cross over. But after I got home, I was just beside myself and my husband was beside himself. no matter how many animals you adopt and love, it never gets any easier when they pass And, you always have this, did I do the right thing in your head, although I know, logically, I had done the right thing.

Tava Baird: He was not going to have a active and productive life without being able to. move his legs, right? but I, I was having trouble shaking that and I was just a [00:37:00] mess. And Samael appeared and he said, what do you need? And I said, I'm going to try not to cry on this podcast. I said, I want to pet my dog. And he said, so pet him.

Tava Baird: And then I said, he's not here. He's not here. I can't help him. He's dead. And Samuel said, yes he is. And I said, and I remember saying, people are going to think I'm crazy, that I'm petting wherever I feel his energy at. Like I'm petting the air next to me where he always sat.

Tava Baird: And Samuel said, he's still there. And I reached out and I could feel him. And I pet my dog. And I started making a habit of that. Whenever I would, you know, 10 minutes later when that grief would well up in my chest, I would reach down and I would [00:38:00] talk to him and I would pet him. And I stopped caring if someone, first off, I'm in my own home, right?

Tava Baird: But that, that, that stigma we have about, being able to reach out into the spiritual realm was so ingrained in me, despite the fact that I now have a metaphysical podcast, right? And how many books have I written on, witchcraft and metaphysics and things like that. There's still that thing that sits there that says that place is not for you.

Tava Baird: What will people think? And in his crossing over and in the days afterwards, I stopped caring what people thought. And if I wanted to pet my dog, I reached down and I pet my dog and I talked to him just like he was still there because I could feel him there. And [00:39:00] it helped me heal so much faster I mean, I still miss him and mourn him, obviously, but I was able to function because I didn't draw this hard line anymore between light versus dark, before versus after, living versus dead.

Tava Baird: I started trying to look at what Samaya always tells me. It's not or, it's and, and we can straddle worlds. We just have to believe that we can. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And one of the things that really came up from something that I think Samuel had said right before you were telling that story is that where he was talking don't wait to do your work, you don't wait to do this preparation.

Jennifer Taylor: And that is a huge theme in, shamanism throughout, all of these different [00:40:00] cultures is the idea that we are. It's like how do we live well and die well and the idea that, there isn't a fear of dying. it's very clear and palpable to them that it's just a stepping through that doorway.

Jennifer Taylor: It's just crossing through this very thin veil, much thinner than we think it is and out of this body and into our light body and shamans and people in these really shamanic cultures. are doing that work and understanding that there is soul and work to be done. And they are, doing shamanic journeys, dream work.

Jennifer Taylor: they are aware that all of these other realms, all of these other realms exist and let go of the idea that if it's not a physicalized, dense energy, people and the desk that we're sitting at, and these kinds of things that it doesn't [00:41:00] mean that that's all that's there. And they, see beyond that.

Jennifer Taylor: And the idea is that we're really always doing that work. And that if we want to live well and die well, that We do this work, this soul work, and we put that at the forefront of our goals here in this physicalized life what is the work of my soul? What is it that I came here to do?

Jennifer Taylor: And putting that above, Climbing the corporate ladder, or, the things that we're maybe told we're supposed to be doing as a society, but they're prioritizing their soul journey, their soul work. And, I think I remember you telling me a little bit about that book, about I think it was like great beings died that, and I would imagine that part of that is doing that work on a daily basis, doing that work 

Jennifer Taylor: You're aware of these other aspects of [00:42:00] yourself andof existence, and you're doing that soul preparation. You're healing the things that need to come up and be healed. You're, acknowledging all the parts of yourself and getting to know them in a deeper way. 

Jennifer Taylor: it's not like, last minute, you know, your desk is piled up with paperwork and stuff of Oh, I've still got to file that and I've got to file that. it's doing that work as you go along. And that that makes all the difference.

Tava Baird: Not to mention, it helps the living who are going to be cleaning up your earthly effects afterwards if you have given this thought. if you've chosen your life path and you've decided what you're here to do, but you're also doing things like creating a will and talking to people around you about what sort of death you want to have, so that they aren't In the moment struggling to try to support you I want to talk really briefly here about Green [00:43:00] Cemetery.

Tava Baird: Green Hill Cemetery is a historic Victorian cemetery in West Virginia. Queen Victoria,was basically from what I understand in mourning most of her reign as queen her husband had passed on and she wore mourning clothes and because of that, because the queen, in a constant and prolonged mourning state with all the traditions that went with that, it became very fashionable during the Victorian era to make the concept of death part of your life.

Tava Baird: And one of the things people did in addition to, and if you ever want to read about this stuff, oh my gosh, it's fascinating, to look at all the death traditions and things that grew up in the Victorian era and how they affected our society and now we would say those people are just goth, you know, but, wearing black became, a very big thing.

Tava Baird: But one of the practices that came up during the Victorian era was the practice of picnicking in cemeteries. Of taking your [00:44:00] picnic and going to some of these places that are quite lovely and full of beautiful monuments and sitting down and eating next to graves. And the Green Hill Cemetery, which is, trying to raise funds to help preserve this lovely cemetery, decided let's revive this practice.

Tava Baird: And in April, I'm actually participating in an event there where people can come and give a donation and picnic in this wonderful cemetery. And they will also have vendors there. So I will be, selling my books and poppets and all sorts of lovely things in a cemetery, which just seemed really cool.

Tava Baird: I've never vended in a cemetery before. And people might say, Oh, but that's a place of the dead And I can't imagine that any spirits that might be out there, walking through the places where their bodies are buried, wouldn't love to see a bunch of [00:45:00] happy people in their environment, enjoying themselves and honoring them and visiting them.

Tava Baird: I love the idea, that comes from Mexico and other countried down south. the days of the dead where people go back into the cemeteries and they paint the tombstones bright colors and they bring food and flowers and they sit there and they eat with their ancestors. That is living well with the concept of death.

Tava Baird: And I just think I, I was so excited to be a part of this event and I'll talk about it when we get closer to April. so if you're in the area and you wanna come out, you can, Cemeteries aren't just supposed to be a place that we lay remains and then, we go there only to grieve.

Tava Baird: They have the potential to be gathering places for all of us, whether we are currently embodied or out of it and still doing some work. 

Jennifer Taylor: I wanted, [00:46:00] there was one other thing, as I know we're having to need to wrap up, that had to me to say about, or to share after that whole experience.

Jennifer Taylor: I'd had the whole experience with the vase and then I had horrendous nightmares that night. And the next day I was like, okay. You know, Archangel Michael, what, what is going on? I was like, what was all of that? And he was like, processing, processing, processing. I was like, what was I processing? It was like, what was I processing?

Jennifer Taylor: He's like the experience last night. And I said, what was that? And he said, ancestors, ancestors, getting restless, tired of waiting to be recognized. And I was asking, are they, are they well ancestors? Are they helping spirits? Are they unhealed entities? Um, that are maybe not in my highest good.

Jennifer Taylor: He said, both, they are both. So I was like, how do I work with them? what do I do? And he said, they are here with a message that you should receive. You don't have to receive their energy to receive their message. Not [00:47:00] all will stay. He was telling me just to listen and be still and not be afraid.

Jennifer Taylor: I was like, are you talking about like people in my family who have died? And he said no,ancestors in a greater sense, some may be related. but many are those who give themselves in service to your call. I was like, why did it feel so terrible?

Jennifer Taylor: cause it was really startling, the energy was really strong and intense and focused on getting your attention, and, you were close enough to feel the force of that energy. And I was talking about, how do I can, how do I keep my energy safe and sovereign?

Jennifer Taylor: And I was worried about the idea of having these, unhealed energies around me and what was going to happen. And he said, it is not evil to be unhealed, just unfinished. He said, they are still in their processes and learning and repairing. You are unhealed, but you are not dangerous.

Jennifer Taylor: You have nothing to fear from them. They are here [00:48:00] in service. They will not cause harm. I said, so how do I honor my ancestors? And he said, acknowledge them, speak to them, mention them in your gratitudes. so I thought it was really interesting. And I keep thinking about that, it is not evil to be unhealed, just unfinished.

Jennifer Taylor: And I was thinking, Oh my goodness. That's,that's a really different perspective. 

Tava Baird: Yes. And it's funny because as soon as you said that, Samuel's going, yes, yes, yes, yes. And he said, if you were to die this moment, would you be considered healed? I'm not going to try not to, Oh, I've already cursed once this podcast.

Tava Baird: Let me go ahead and do it. I have a shit ton of work to do, right? But I'm still out here trying to do things that are in. My own and other people's good and that's one of the things about the interaction that I had with that spirit at the [00:49:00] Blue Ball Inn, who had overstepped his boundaries.I did have to set some boundaries after he was, Moving my body and my using my voice without my permission on a couple of occasions, but the thing was he's not healed.

Tava Baird: I also don't have any feeling that he's malevolent at all. He's there because he loves someone and that love may have helped stick him in a certain place. So I'm gonna try to find out if he wants help getting unstuck and then try to figure out with the guidance of Samael how exactly the heck I do that.

Tava Baird: But I didn't feel that he at any point that he wanted to harm me. Any. He didn't want power. He didn't want control. He wasn't angry. He didn't have animosity. He is in that house because of a load that he [00:50:00] cannot shake. It just needs to be transformed into a place where I think he has more choices, and then he can decide what to do. .

Tava Baird: And more knowledge about how to make those choices. So I, you could not have ended this episode with something I liked better. That was absolutely unhealed does not mean evil. We all have unhealed places. there are souls that, Have a lot of healing to do that may be on power trips and other things like that, that are really sort of stuck in what happened in this life.

Tava Baird: But the ultimate goal is that when all of our work here is done, we will all be able to see things from a different perspective and get to a place where we can return and become a remembering ancestor once more.

Jennifer Taylor: So I'm thinking we can end on some [00:51:00] music. 

Jennifer Taylor: Michael 

Tava Baird: with the mic drop of the whole episode there was like, 

Jennifer Taylor: boom, 

Tava Baird: way to go, Michael. Very enthusiastic angel on my side saying yes, yes, yes. 

Jennifer Taylor: I'm trying to get a sense of singing that, that song that came through again. when you were writing and I was like, Oh, I have to sing. Yeah, I feel like I need to do that. Because that keeps, I keep hearing it in my head. So I'm like, why am I doubting that you hear it in your head? What do you think? Exactly, exactly. 

Tava Baird: I love it's like, this is the episode that we didn't know what it was going to be.

Tava Baird: And we talked about Death in the afterlife and divine darkness. Big topics today.

Jennifer Taylor: [00:52:00] [00:53:00] [00:54:00] 

Jennifer Taylor: well, this has been an eventful and unexpected podcast. You can 

Jennifer Taylor: say that 

Tava Baird: again. So thank you to the sacred dark that's out there. Thank you to the sacred light.

Tava Baird: You can't have one without the other. And we'll see you guys next time. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yes, may you be blessed and feel held and safe and strong and stable within all of these energies, knowing that it is all divine, it is all sacred, and it's all a part of ourselves. And This incredible, [00:55:00] creation in which we live.

Tava Baird: And I don't sing, but I feel like, what's that song? I love you just the way you are. Yeah. Very nice. Your darkness and your light babies.