Standing Up for Your Community: An Interview with Rev. Ron Padrón

Show Notes:

Links from Ron:

Organizations/Resources

Here are some organizations that I support and encourage folks to check out:

Free State Justice: https://www.freestate-justice.org/ 

Baltimore Safe Haven: https://www.baltimoresafehaven.org/ 

Trans Maryland: https://transmaryland.org/

The DC LGBTQ+ Community Center: https://thedccenter.org/

The Pride Center of Maryland: https://www.pridecentermd.org/

The Frederick Center: https://thefrederickcenter.org/

Maryland Food Bank: https://mdfoodbank.org/

Disability Rights Maryland: https://disabilityrightsmd.org/

CASA (Immigration justice and working-class advocacy): https://wearecasa.org/

Swing Left: https://swingleft.org/

Vote Forward: https://votefwd.org/

Stand Up America: https://standupamerica.com/

Queer Ancestor Dance Party Playlist

Here is the link to the Queer Ancestor Dance Party playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4AdJ4N6Pnb4h3Wcm1wMAXu?si=dRxwZSJDSDKxkVUmHIjcXg

Upcoming Events

My upcoming events can be found here: https://www.whiterosewitching.com/events

One that is not on there yet (I'm waiting to hear which of my submissions were accepted) is Free Spirit Gathering. Folks can learn more and register about the event here: https://www.freespiritgatheringmd.org/

Books/Publications

Folks can find my zines, books, and interviews here: https://www.whiterosewitching.com/publications

Direct link to ALTARPUNK: https://www.whiterosewitching.com/altar-punk 

Direct link to the PaganPunk Community Grimoire: https://www.whiterosewitching.com/paganpunk-community-grimoire

Newsletter

Folks can sign up for my monthly newsletter here: https://www.whiterosewitching.com/mailing-list-sign-up

Socials

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/white.rose.witching/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/whiterosewitching

Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/wrwitching.bsky.social

To support Ron's community work: patreon.com/WhiteRoseWitching

Thank you joining us today, remember to LIKE and SUBSCRIBE to keep up to date with your tribe.

Connect with your Hosts!

Tava Baird: tavabaird.com or https://darkflowerbooks.etsy.com.

Jennifer Taylor: Willow Ridge Reiki and Healing Arts https://www.willowridgereiki.com/

Transcript

[00:00:00] 

Jennifer Taylor: Good morning, Tava. 

Tava Baird: Good morning, Jente. How are you? 

Jennifer Taylor: I am well. I'm really excited to do this introduction for this amazing interview with Ron Padron and just sing us an invocation. This is an interview that Tava did with Ron at an evening when everyone in my house had the flu and I wasn't sure I was going to make it through, without going down as well.

Jennifer Taylor: And so, she was kind enough to take over and do the interview for me, although I really wish that I could have been a part of it. His energy is so It's just amazing. So I'm really excited for our listeners to get to listen to you guys engaging and all of the cool stuff that he has going on and just what an amazing person he is.

Tava Baird: he's pretty cool. I met Ron, actually, I believe it was at the Hallowed Homecoming, retreat a couple of years ago when I [00:01:00] was teaching bone casting. And I was absolutely tickled because, bone casting has become a big part of his life since then. and I got to be there, when he met the bones for the first time.

Tava Baird: So, I'm super,excited to have him on the podcast. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah, so it was really wonderful for me to get to listen to afterwards. I couldn't wait for you to get it up so that I could edit it so I could listen to it. one of the reasons that we decided to have someone on the podcast in an interview was that we are all about them.

Jennifer Taylor: Transcribed Connecting people with resources and creating community, and he is a huge vehicle for creating community and helping people to also open their communities and make their communities that much more open and accessible. So I'm really excited that we got to have him on and as our first guest, and so we decided that it would still be nice to open the space with a song.

Jennifer Taylor: And [00:02:00] so that will be my part of things. 

Tava Baird: Wonderful.

Jennifer Taylor: [00:03:00] [00:04:00] 

Jennifer Taylor: oh, [00:05:00] [00:06:00] oh, 

Jennifer Taylor: That was really interesting. It was so different. And at the end, I felt like I was holding this vessel, this like urn, in my hands in front of me. And then at the end, since I recorded the closing song right after the opening song, , it felt like it was taking all of the energy from it, and then I was, I was sending it along the paths ahead of people or something.

Jennifer Taylor: So people will hear the paths part of the song at the very end of this podcast. 

Tava Baird: Wait till you hear this then. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah, I'm so interested. And then it [00:07:00] was like it took it and it sent it all these different paths and then brought it back around in this sphere then that I was holding.

Jennifer Taylor: So yeah, I can't wait to hear what Samael has to say about them. 

Tava Baird: Samael said, see, it is a singing bowl, clearing of space. Consecration of the location in the round for the sacred, the holy, temple built of the mysteries to come, a making of passage, the vibration of the heart in the blood. We thought it sounded like a singing bowl.

Tava Baird: And that it opened the ways to things, the making of passage, 

Jennifer Taylor: making of passage. So was that he, did he say that at the beginning of the beginning one or the second one? 

Tava Baird: The first one. Interesting. The one where you had your hands up like this. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. 

Tava Baird: He thought it sounded like a singing bowl. 

Jennifer Taylor: Very interesting, and then that led to the end one, and there was [00:08:00] so much movement, I was like, I'm just gonna go for it, and let all the movements come, and it was like making these paths, I was like, oh, that's what this is doing, okay.

Tava Baird: Goes with it. Yeah, that motion that goes with it. They're hand in hand. Oh my goodness. 

Jennifer Taylor: So I hope that you have enjoyed the introduction and the intro song, and now on with the interview.

Tava Baird: Hello, everybody. I am super excited. We are having our very first guest ever on the Mystical Musings podcast. And the reason that we are having this particular guest is because I'm completely in awe of his work. And Also, I think the conversation that we're going to have is very, very timely for a lot of our listeners.

Tava Baird: So, if you are in your car, don't take your hands off the steering wheel to applaud. You can just yell, yay. But, uh, in, [00:09:00] in each in your own way, please give a warm welcome to Ron Padrón of White rose, witching, . So thank you so much for being with me here this evening, Ron.

Ron Padrón: Thanks. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here and I'm, I don't think I knew until you just said it that I'm your first guest, so I'm very, 

Tava Baird: there are a few in the wings, but you are the one breaking new ground for us, so, oh, 

Ron Padrón: well I'm honored and excited. 

Tava Baird: Oh. I, I would start to dive into all of the things that you do, but you will probably give a better elevator pitch in terms of all of the things that you do than I will in introducing you.

Tava Baird: So, can you go ahead and just tell us a little bit about what you do? 

Ron Padrón: Sure. Yeah. Um, so as you mentioned, I am the, the face, the creator behind White Rose Witching. Uh, White Rose Witching is the, the [00:10:00] vehicle that I use for my pagan ministry and spiritual activism. Um, the, the focus of the work that I do really hinges on queer affirming spirituality, uh, specifically focusing a lot of work around sort of queer ancestor, um, veneration, recognition.

Ron Padrón: Um, I do a lot of things around queer and queer history and queer ancestry history specifically. Um, but I also use white rose witching as a space to talk about personal healing and community healing and white rose witching also now. Um, I really love zines. I've loved like zines my whole life. So, um, so, so, um, Through White Rose witching.

Ron Padrón: I co-founded in co-edit one zine called Alter Punk, uh, with two friends of mine. And it is a project designed to reclaim the idea of faith and spirituality from far right nationalist movements. And I just launched a new project that's solely through white rose witching called the Pagan Punk Community Gromoire, that marries [00:11:00] the idea of a Gromoire being a collection of spells, rituals, magical recipes, uh, all that sort of stuff.

Ron Padrón: With, the idea of a zine and especially like a community oriented community focused zine. So it is a collection, a growing collection of one to two page mini zines, each about a specific topic or something, somewhere that are just specific spells or rituals or prayers, um, that are all housed for free on my website under the Pagan Punk Community Grimoire umbrella.

Ron Padrón: I have a few that I started, the first batch was some from myself and some from a friend in Italy named Vittorio Bonetti. and if folks are interested in checking it out or interested in contributing to it, I'm hoping that it'll over time become just a really large, really cool, punky, visual resource of magic for the community.

Tava Baird: I have to tell you, when I heard that you did that, I was so excited. I don't know if you have seen before, it's, I'm not sure if it's still in print or not, but there was a zine back in, I think, the [00:12:00] 1970s called, The Crystal Well. And there's a book that eventually came out of it called Magical Rites from the Crystal Well that was a collection of all of their best articles and it is like when I, when I start mentoring someone in paganism, it's one of the first three books that I give them and say, you know, this is great.

Tava Baird: And so I was so excited to see you. You know, bringing this idea back and, uh, guys, just so you know, I, we will be putting the link to, uh, this in the comment section, um, of the podcast so that you guys will be able just to click on it and go right to Ron's work. And if you are a writer, and I know we have an awful lot of pagan writers who listen, this is another way to connect with the community, and I know I plan on submitting at some point as well.

Ron Padrón: Awesome. Yeah. I mean, folks are. If folks are like, so my background, my undergraduate degree is in like digital art, graphic art [00:13:00] and stuff like that. So this is also a way for me to get back into that a little bit. Um, but one of the things that I tell folks is I've had a couple of folks reach out to like, Oh my God, I love to do this.

Ron Padrón: I just don't think that I'm really artsy. One, you don't have to be artsy to do a zine and to do anything like that. But if you are worried about that, if that's something that is a, an obstacle for you. you can write something and then I'm happy to work with you to kind of get a sense, like a sense of the aesthetic flavor that you're going for.

Ron Padrón: And I'm happy to do the art for you. so don't let that be an obstacle, like your words, your contribution, is important. The only guideline is I'm going to screen everything to make sure that it's not a bunch of, bigoted, hateful, you know, uh, alt right, pro Nazi stuff in there. Like, that's not the purpose of this space.

Ron Padrón: Um, that's, that's very much not my values, my ethos. So, um, but yeah, but if, if you're a writer and you think, oh, but Azeem, you know, if you look at the stuff on there and you're like, oh, but like, I don't know how to do the art stuff. I don't know how to pretty it up or whatever. Don't let that stop you. I will work with you on [00:14:00] that.

Ron Padrón: Um, if, if that is, What you want the end product to look like 

Tava Baird: on we'll make it pretty folks. So just Click on the link go take a look and either you know Do people subscribe to the zine or do they purchase them or 

Ron Padrón: no, it's entirely free. So there's no cost Um, so you don't have to subscribe to it. it's, it's just a page on my website that hopefully will grow and continue to grow over time.

Ron Padrón: Um, and the reason that there is a maximum two page limit is I wanted to make sure that it's super accessible. So if folks saw something they really like, and they want to print it out, it'll just take a sheet of paper like that. It's not gonna be a massive thing. So at most, it'll be a front and back of a sheet of paper.

Ron Padrón: If it's something you want to print out and have with you, maybe you're gonna go somewhere or if you, you know, I don't know if I'm dating myself by using the term three hole punch, but uh, if you have like a three hole punch and you want to put in a binder or like something, so it's meant to be super, super accessible.

Tava Baird: Well that's incredible. [00:15:00] So you are all about accessibility, which is one of the things that I adore about your work. How in the world did you get started on this journey? When did you decide okay, I'm gonna create white rose witching and put yourself out there. 

Ron Padrón: Yeah. So that's, that's actually a really interesting journey.

Ron Padrón: Um, so I started white rose witching in January of 2020 and, it originally started as, uh, so I have, I have really bad ADHD, um, and, I've tried medications up for it. It just doesn't work for me. It's not a good experience. And so things like traditional sort of journaling, having like something to write down, like that doesn't work for me, like I lose the journals or I forget to do it or what have you.

Ron Padrón: Um, but I've always been a visually oriented person. And so I made the decision to start an Instagram. So the White Rose Witching Instagram is actually the first thing of White Rose Witching that ever occurred, um, as a sort of a visual journal, visual diary. So that way. things in the world that I saw that inspired [00:16:00] me or things that I was doing that I wanted to kind of make a record of.

Ron Padrón: Um, it was a way for me to do that. And if other people liked it, like, cool, like that, that wasn't the point of this project wasn't necessarily to like, do something that would garner a lot of engagements or what have you. and then COVID hit and we all kind of went into lockdown and I just had more time to do stuff.

Ron Padrón: Eventually, I think pretty early on in 2020, I made the website, um, and the blog followed shortly after. and so the reason I named it White Rose Witching Is, uh, after the White Rose resistance movement at the end of World War Two. Um, it was an anti Nazi resistance movement that, uh, was started by university students in Munich.

Ron Padrón: and it was a pretty short lived resistance movement. It only lasted about seven months. And, um, most of the students, and there was at least one university professor who were involved, were eventually found by the SS and executed. Um, but they wrote several, uh, and I [00:17:00] learned about the White Rose when I was in college, and they, it stuck with me ever since because they, the leaflets they wrote were inspired by, some of them have served on the Eastern Front, so it was inspired by what they saw there, but it was really just inspired by what they saw as the Nazis having taken the German people.

Ron Padrón: off of the path of like what it actually meant to be like a patriotic German, and they were very much inspired by their understanding of their Christian faith. Um, and so, for me, that notion of, of what does it mean to be involved in activism or advocacy from a spiritually motivated lens, and also because, again, I love zines, I love that sort of stuff, so the leaflets they wrote, the idea of leafleting, um, just You know, passing them out places, uh, leaving stacks of them in places.

Ron Padrón: They also would like do graffiti. Um, you know, that, that, that the spirit of that, that sort of like ground level grassroots level sort of grunge approach to [00:18:00] it really stuck with me. their last leaflet, they actually. Before that, after they were executed, managed to make its way out of Germany to the Allies, and they actually printed millions of copies of it and airdropped it over Nazi Germany.

Ron Padrón: And so just that idea of something that they were doing for their community that they knew would get them, probably get them killed, um, never really expected it necessarily to have. Such a massive impact then turned into this thing posthumously for them. Um, for most of them, there were a couple that managed to survive that turned into this thing that, you know, millions of copies of it were just airdrops all over, all over Germany.

Ron Padrón: Um, so they've always been sort of inspiration for me, uh, uh, when it comes to how The importance of even small forms of resistance or community organization, community education. Um, and so when I was trying to figure out a name for the Instagram into like the little visual diary thing, Um, I landed on White Rose, and I love alliteration, so, [00:19:00] uh, it was White Rose Witching.

Tava Baird: What a story. 

Ron Padrón: Yeah. And, and then it was a little prescient in a certain extent because then it just grew into this very large sort of vehicle for, spiritual activism, which is not what it originally, what I originally intended it to be necessarily. but clearly given the name, the, the spirits were like, no, no, no, this is what it's going to be.

Ron Padrón: But you, it's cute that you think right now you're just starting Instagram, but it's going to be something else. 

Tava Baird: Isn't it funny how you start something small and then the energies around you and the guides around you go, that's what you think. 

Ron Padrón: Yeah, because the blog, yeah, because the blog I started was, was mostly just like, I was like, I don't know I'm going to put him and I think it was maybe in, it might have been at the end of 2020, but it was, it might've been into 2021 that I was like, I really don't think that I'm doing anything with the blog.

Ron Padrón: I don't know what to do with it. And. immediately, I did a little bit of sort of journey work to be just like, I don't know what to do with this. I think this is [00:20:00] not a direction that I want to go in. Um, but hey, if there's something I'm not thinking of, let me know. And then that's what started the monthly queer ancestor posts, was that journey work and just being like, no, the purpose of your blog, like, sure, if you want to write other stuff, but the purpose of your blog is to do highlights of, queer history, queer ancestors.

Ron Padrón: There are some that I've done that are fairly recognizable, that people know. But there are a lot that I go out of my way to, find locations or people that, especially in the U. S., folks probably haven't heard of, and I try to do a global thing of it. I use ArcGIS to do a map, a global map that's associated with the Queer Ancestor posts.

Ron Padrón: So each Queer Ancestor post is also represented as a pin on the map. So that way, when you look at the map, you can kind of see the global spread of where our stories and our history is coming from. Oh 

Tava Baird: my god, that's amazing. holy cow. So, we, a couple of episodes ago had done, actually now it's probably about a month ago, we did [00:21:00] a podcast on forming your own Pagan, be it book group or, you know, coven or spirituality group.

Tava Baird: And I mean, basically any group where you're bringing community together at a grassroots level. And we talked about, like how some of the best ones and the ones that endure organize themselves. And one thing I would love to ask you is when we are reaching out into. communities and looking to make ourselves, available for a really broad spectrum of people.

Tava Baird: what are some things that I, you, you know so much more about this field than I do. What are some things that maybe we don't think about that we could use like to welcome people from all walks of life into our groups and make them feel welcome once they get there? 

Ron Padrón: Yeah. Ooh. That's a good question. just so you know, 

Tava Baird: Ron did not have these questions [00:22:00] in advance.

Tava Baird: He is literally hearing them as they say, nothing like improv. 

Ron Padrón: Yeah. Well, so I realized that part of the question you asked me before was about accessibility. And so, a lot of the work that I do and a lot of the stuff that I do is LGBTQ plus activism, but also disability justice and accessibility.

Ron Padrón: partly because those are two identities that I carry. So I'm an out gay man. I also am somebody who has chronic illness and, disability. So those are all, Because those are parts of my lived experiences. Those are things that are always front of mind for me. Um, so I think there's a couple of ways that I think I want to approach that question.

Ron Padrón: I think the first one is kind of circling back a little bit to that accessibility idea. in understanding that, access to community I think a lot of us go into this idea of building community or organizing community with a very specific, lens or maybe aesthetic of what that might look like. and understanding that that is not, [00:23:00] that community can, can exist in lots of different ways.

Ron Padrón: And I think we speak, we've seen this evolve very quickly over, you know, since COVID, When we had to be online for extended periods of time, how to make virtual online community something that is, you know, if that's all we had, how do we make that meaningful? How do we make that impactful? How do we make that worthwhile?

Ron Padrón: for a lot of folks who, for a number of reasons, access to physical community might be hard to do or might be off the table. That was a period of time in which they were able to really kind of thrive. and then in this sort of And I'm using, I'm saying post covid with covid with air quotes because it's still here,

Ron Padrón: Um, um, but in this sort of force snapback, a lot of folks who are losing access to community, because a lot of folks now just moving back to sort of. The before time status quo or standards. So also, so thinking about if you're inviting people into community, if you're, what are those spaces? How are you making those spaces accessible?

Ron Padrón: Are you making those spaces safe for [00:24:00] people? Um, I think for me, virtual community, online community that wasn't a new thing. I was a pretty big gamer growing up. and so I played a lot of like world of Warcraft and EverQuest too. And 

Tava Baird: myself. 

Ron Padrón: Yeah, and those connections in those spaces for me were very important.

Ron Padrón: Actually, the first person that I ever came out to, after I came out to myself, the first person I ever came out to was a guild member in EverQuest 2. And that was somebody who lived in like, I was in Florida at the time, I think they were in like Kentucky or Kansas or something. So, this notion of virtual community, online community being just as important.

Ron Padrón: or just as valid as other types of community has always been part of how I approach it. So I think when thinking about building community organizing community, understanding the different shapes that it can take. if you're talking about sort of building community, um, for These times, right? Like sort of building community of how do [00:25:00] we build community to resist or thrive or support each other during these.

Ron Padrón: I really encourage folks to check out. So Deepa Iyer is a person who does a lot of great work around, social justice and organizing and they have, I'm gonna get the name of this wrong, but I'm fairly certain it's called the social justice, ecosystem. it's a framework that at the middle of the framework of things like, equity, inclusion, justice.

Ron Padrón: But the framework is really cool because outside of it, it's, it's like a, it's like a wheel and there's a bunch of spokes and each sort of spoke is some sort of role that people can play in building community or building action to, for justice, for liberation, for equality. because when we think about that, a lot of people are like, okay, you know, I got to go march on the street for this.

Ron Padrón: Great. If that's, something you have capacity to do or the ability to do. That's wonderful. But when you look at her map, that's [00:26:00] just one of the spokes. There's also things like storyteller or healer or, visionary or, what have you. So all of these different spaces or roles that we can occupy are all things that are necessary for community, especially for sustainable community.

Ron Padrón: If everybody's just like the action person, like the on the street person. That's, that's powerful, but at some point people are going to burn out or at some point, the thing you're marching against, like there's not going to be another March. So that look using some sort of framework and it doesn't have to be this framework, but using some sort of framework that also acknowledges all the different other capacities that are necessary, to achieve an end.

Ron Padrón: And you can float between multiple of them, or you could be multiple of them. but noting that all of those roles are just as important in. In the action of pursuing sort of social justice or equality or liberation. The same is true for all of those roles are just as important for [00:27:00] building and sustaining community.

Tava Baird: Oh my God. I love this. And I'm going to find that site and get it up in the comments section. And I can't wait to look at it because, for example, this last weekend, I was, I'm involved currently in designing a very large ritual that's going to happen for a bunch of people later on in the And, you know, Pagans like to be out in the woods, so we're, we're looking at the woods and I'm thinking, I don't know who's coming to this.

Tava Baird: I have a bad knee so I can't walk that far, but I started thinking about, you know, your mind goes, okay, we're going to get everybody out around a big bonfire in the woods. And then you start thinking about what if someone's in a wheelchair, they want to be able to participate in the ritual as well.

Tava Baird: What if someone can't walk very far, what if someone is hearing impaired, like how can I make this so that there is. There is accessibility for everybody that's there. Um, and so I absolutely love that looking up, I'm going to look up the social justice [00:28:00] ecosystem and try to incorporate it into that.

Tava Baird: thank you so much for that. I would love to know, this is going to sound like a goofy question, But I'm 50 something years old. Okay. And I was having a lovely conversation with a friend of mine, with another friend of mine who is in the, LGBTQ plus community the other day. And she said. God, you know, when we were in college, you pretty much were straight, gay, or bi.

Tava Baird: She goes, I don't know what I am anymore. Like am I pan? Am I omni? I don't know all the terms and I am a member of the community. She's like, I've been marching longer than most people that I know that are in the community. And, and she said, I wish there was like resources or websites because it felt like a little intimidating to her to have to kind of [00:29:00] go back and educate herself and make sure that she wasn't goofing up when she spoke to people.

Tava Baird: So I was wondering, are there any recommendations or books or sites that are educational that you would recommend for some of us older people that are trying to stay on top of the rapidly morphing landscape of diversity. And it doesn't have to be just for LGBTQ it can be for disability or it can be for, anything that you're involved in.

Ron Padrón: Yeah, and I know there's gonna be stuff that I'm not thinking of now that I'll think of later So I'll make sure to send you like links and stuff that you can include fantastic, but I mean glad has sort of like a List of terms or terminology. so a lot of the National LGBT Task Force, I think, has similar stuff.

Ron Padrón: So a lot of sort of the national players have, in some capacity, have some sort of resource or listing [00:30:00] of just sort of like, what are the terms? What do they mean? Um, pronouns. org. Um, it's, it's so International Pronouns Day. Um, the, the website that kind of hosts or links to a lot of the stuff that's going on is pronouns.

Ron Padrón: org, and pronouns. org has a lot of good resources for understanding pronouns and especially, uh, neopronouns, which are some of the newer ones that, that folks, uh, may not have heard before or may not be familiar with. Um, and then for when it comes to accessibility stuff, I would say there are a lot of greats.

Ron Padrón: Folks doing, continuing the disability accessibility work. Folks like Alice Wong. Um, uh, do, do, do, do, do. Yeah, I know, I'll send you a list afterwards. Okay, 

Tava Baird: great. I'm writing down all the ones that you have right now. Way to go off the top of your head there. 

Ron Padrón: Yeah, yeah. I mean, and it's true. I struggle with, I struggle with the two [00:31:00] sometimes, um, and I, I do a lot of stuff, uh, in my day job where I'm interacting or working with or in the classroom environment with, queer youth in a higher education setting.

Ron Padrón: And I say queer youth because they are, you know, I'm about to turn 40 and they're,18. So I referred, they're the babies to me. but you know, and I've had really great conversations with them where I've said to them the same thing. I was like, Oh, like it's. it's interesting to me or sometimes I have a hard time keeping up and what some of them have said to me is like your generation of the guys, you know, those of you who came before us did, you know, your fight was expanding the understanding of sexuality.

Ron Padrón: Um, And our fight is expanding the understanding of gender and 

Tava Baird: I love that being phrased that way. That's fantastic. 

Ron Padrón: Yeah. and like I tell folks all the time, I was just like, We are, we are not static beings, at least I hope you're not a static being.

Ron Padrón: and so who we are as far as our relationship to our gender. And I'm not saying that it means [00:32:00] that at some point, like when you turn 60, you're going to realize like, Oh, I think I might be trans non binary. you might have a realization. That's not what I'm saying. But that your relationship to your gender, my, like I identify as a cis man, like I've, I've never really had a moment where I've questioned my relationship to my gender in that capacity, but my relationship to what it means to be a man or how expressing myself as a man, um, that has evolved over the course of my life, partly in response to when I came out and understanding my sexuality.

Ron Padrón: And so, you know, for me, my relationship to being a man. You know, it has evolved over the course of my life, I'm sure it will continue to evolve. My relationship to being gay has evolved, like my understanding of what it means to be gay. I didn't know a lot of trans men when I was coming out, and when I was like, growing up in the South, and what have you.

Ron Padrón: Um, but because of Instagram. You know, I realize that for me, gay means that, yeah, like there are a bunch of trans guys that I've seen on [00:33:00] Instagram that I'm like, they are super hot. so for me, I understand, I process, I was like, okay, so like for me when I say gay, that means like I'm attracted to men.

Ron Padrón: Whether it's cis men or trans men or what have you. And that's a conversation I had with myself like only in the last few years because there weren't a lot of trans men around me when I was growing up and it's really because of Instagram that I've been able to be been exposed to more people and go oh yeah like there's some folks on here that I'm like they are super hot and and yeah that was a it wasn't it was a thing that just Happened to come into my life and made me go.

Ron Padrón: Oh, hey, like i'm noticing it was just a few years ago that I was like, oh i'm starting to notice a pattern um And I was able to kind of cotton on to that. I was like, oh, okay Well, what does this mean for me?

Ron Padrón: Because I did have a question of for me personally like, okay do I feel like the label of gay Does that still fit me now that I realized, oh, actually my, attractions and men [00:34:00] is expansive in this way. And I talked to my therapist.

Ron Padrón: So like, Hey, this is the thing that I'm going through. And I'm like, batting it around and, you know, for me it was like, yeah, like I still identify as gay because for me that encompasses this. and that happened when I'm about to turn 40, right? So I came out 20 years ago. So, um, so yeah, like our understanding of sexuality and gender is Continuing to evolve in some ways.

Ron Padrón: I'm, I really also want to draw attention to the fact that it's not expanding. I would say in a lot of ways, it is returning to what historically, if you, if you look at Human history, human culture, the rigid sort of binary is actually not the common way of doing it. And sort of the a historical blip in it, most cultures, most places have had space for more than two genders or space for, same sex attraction, even if it was [00:35:00] limited attraction where it's like, okay, it's fine for, or.

Ron Padrón: men to be in same sex relationships or sexual situations up until a certain point in their life, at which point we expect them to get married or vice versa, that girls can do whatever. Most cultures throughout human history have made space for that in some way. So, I also think in a certain way, we're kind of returning to what historically we've always known.

Ron Padrón: We are. 

Tava Baird: Oh, I love that. Absolutely. Love it. it was interesting, I was teaching a class, a couple of, I guess it was maybe a year ago or something, and, I always start off a lot of my classes by asking, Actually, all of my classes by asking everybody in the group, why are you here today? You know, why did you choose to come take Celtic Paganism 101?

Tava Baird: You know, why are you sitting in this room? And it was interesting, I had several people in the group start off and they answered, Well, I heard that I might have a pagan ancestor. And I said, We [00:36:00] all have pagan ancestors. Like, Yeah, everybody does, you know, like it doesn't matter if you can trace it back, exactly.

Tava Baird: This is something you're not, Learning witchcraft, you're remembering witchcraft, right? You're not learning paganism, you're remembering it. This is something that is in everyone's heritage. Because if you go back far enough, there was no big organized religion. I remember everybody in the room went, Oh, like I have a right to this.

Tava Baird: It's like, yeah, you do. Don't let people tell you you don't. I would love to know, because now I'm sure everybody listening to you is in love with you the same way I am. I'm sorry, I think you're in a relationship. I don't mean that in a romantic way. I mean it in a, I absolutely adore you. I don't want, I don't want somebody angry banging on my door later on tonight.

Tava Baird: Um, so upcoming this year,what are your goals and what are you reaching towards doing, in 2025 with White Rose? [00:37:00] 

Ron Padrón: Ooh, yeah, that's a timely question. Um, so I am currently in the process of actually, so the last five years of White Rose has been kind of very informal. so I actually just recently finally incorporated as an LLC.

Ron Padrón: Um, so that way, thank you. mostly so that way I have sort of a more formal business structure to house some stuff. It was something that I was very hesitant to do, but I spent the latter half of last year thinking about it, mostly because, a lot of the workshops and stuff that I've realized that I have started doing more regularly, like one that I do every pride month is crafting, Queer ancestor talismans.

Ron Padrón: And, some of the stuff I do has materials costs, materials fees, and so I was just like, yeah, I would be, kind of at the point where I might have to charge a little bit for some of the workshops or different things. but with that, I am in the, once I get all of that finalized, I'll be actually launching a Patreon.

Ron Padrón: and the money that comes to the Patreon will allow me to really, really focus more, especially on two things. So, [00:38:00] Queer Ancestors, especially sort of like Queer History, specifically through the lens of resistance, liberation, and 

Ron Padrón: resilience. 

Ron Padrón: which is, I think, incredibly needed in this time, and, then also looking just sort of the idea of spiritual activism, almost like approaching it in the sense of like pagan liberation theology.

Ron Padrón: Um, so doing sort of video essays or write ups about that. and then in addition, a Patreon exclusive will be and, and it's interesting that, that I think this is the first time I'm plugging the Patreon and it's interesting that it's with you. It's great that it's with you. Because one of the Patreon exclusives is actually going to be bone casting.

Ron Padrón: which I learned from you. Uh, and You have a 

Tava Baird: shared love of bone casting. 

Ron Padrón: Yeah, and I just finally finished it took me a year to actually create this set and it's Again, just perfect timing that the set came into the final being at the same time I was doing this took a year for me to get all the pieces or not get all the pieces took all it took a year For the pieces to find me.

Ron Padrón: And then I did a [00:39:00] dedication. I also created a new mat for it So I did take dedication of the mat dedication of the bones. And so, the first of the month will be a bone casting for just sort of the outlook for the month, and then, um, at certain tiers, it will also then include, like, at one tier, you have access to me for quarterly individual bone casting, and then at the top tier, I think it's a monthly bone casting.

Ron Padrón: so that's sort of The icing on top, I think, is the bunk castings, but, um, and then in addition to all the tiers, you also have, you know, advanced notice of events, things that I'm doing, um, as far as events, it's early February right now, coming up in March, I'll be at Sacred Space Conference, which is in Towson, Baltimore, Maryland, at the end of March, I have two panels that I'm facilitating there, one is actually on building sustainable cross pagan communities, um, Um, and yeah, and I have some great panelists like Katrina Messenger, Irene Gloss, J.

Ron Padrón: R. Mascaro. and then the other one is, a panel about the [00:40:00] Latinx, experience in paganism. Oh, fantastic. Yeah, and so it's myself, Wendy Mata, Ivo Dominguez, Salman Pakal, and Jesse Hathaway Diaz talking about our various experiences as Latinx folks coming into paganism and then our experiences within sort of the the US pagan milieu with these identities and backgrounds.

Ron Padrón: oh, and then in April, I'm leading a queer history teach in, at, the Frederick Unitarian Universalist Church. That's April 19th. And I'm traveling for a while after that. And then in August, I will be at Free Spirit Gathering. I'm actually a featured presenter for free spirit gathering At camp ramblewood, in darlington, maryland, I think and yeah, i'll be leading two rituals.

Ron Padrón: uh community healing ritual and individual healing ritual and at least one [00:41:00] workshop, possibly two I know one of the one workshop I will definitely be doing is, it's my first time offering this workshop. It's decolonizing death. So, uh, a conversation around literally what it sounds like decolonizing our approach to understanding death.

Ron Padrón: And, hopefully, folks will leave the workshop with less fear of a death. I'm not saying that folks will leave the workshop being like, I'm ready to die. But, but an understanding of the way that we in the West, our relationship to the idea of death, the reality of death. is very toxic and unhealthy and, that having a better relationship with that, whether through, spirits that represent death, the deities that represent death, or just sort of the process of death, is actually very liberating.

Tava Baird: Ron, I feel like you are psychic because first off, you keep answering questions I'm about to ask you next before I do it. And second, because our podcast that is, part one was, just out yesterday and part two is next week, is [00:42:00] on the way that the West needs to have a more healthy relationship with death.

Ron Padrón: Oh, awesome. I'm excited to listen to it. 

Tava Baird: we talk about darkness and then that leads us into a whole thing about death. And so I'm like, Oh, Dude, like, it's just fantastic. I gotta circle back up because I've drawn about 10 stars around it. I'm sorry, keep going. I 

Ron Padrón: have one more event I want to plug too.

Ron Padrón: Yeah, so, um, and actually this is I got to get better at my elevator pitch. So, I co edited a book that came out at end of last year with Laura Tempest Zagroff. It was the third in the newer audio series called Serpents of Circe, a manual to magical resilience. And I will be doing my first ever book signing, in October.

Ron Padrón: I believe it'll be October, early October. I'll have the actual dates, hopefully soon. but I'm super excited because it, my first book signing, and it's going to be at the Maryland Wren Fest. So, yeah, and I will 

Tava Baird: is the book available right now, like online so I can put a link to [00:43:00] it. 

Ron Padrón: you can get to all, all my publications, through my website.

Ron Padrón: Um, so I have that. And then also, I've shown up in a couple of books In the last year and a half or so, I have two prayers in the second volume of the Druids book of, Spells, prayers and rituals. I think that's what it's called. and then I also have a chosen family hearth ritual in the newly released queer rights, magic for more to honor your milestones with pride, which was, written by emphasis book in front of mine.

Tava Baird: 

Tava Baird: Wasn't there an event you guys did? 

Ron Padrón: It was an amazing, uh, yeah, they did a burlesque book launch, in Baltimore, uh, burlesque cabaret.

Ron Padrón: Yeah, so they actually just wrote a new blog post on their blog that's like, sorry, not sorry. I think I broke book launches. it was absolutely amazing experience. Um, and I provided the, uh, the sponsorship for the ASL for that. Um, but, um, But yeah, so a couple of books that I'm in, you can find them on my website, but the one that I co edited with Laura Tempest Zakroff, I'll be doing a signing for, [00:44:00] um, at the Maryland Wren Fest in early October.

Ron Padrón: And yes, I will be dressed up because it is, well, one, not only is it like to do the book signings there, is it mandatory to be in garb, but also I will never pass up an opportunity to dress in my Wren Fair garb. 

Tava Baird: Oh, congratulations on all these. This is fantastic. Thanks. 

Tava Baird: I want to go back up to the talismans because I want one bad. And I know multiple people who I want to get them for gifts.

Tava Baird: How does, is it a workshop that you do, or do you sell them through your site? 

Ron Padrón: No, it's a workshop that I do. so I have a big ol I'm channeling my inner, like, elementary school art teacher with their cart who goes around. I have a big ol tub of, uh, we most of it is, little wooden discs that, I get from Michael's.

Ron Padrón: I think they're used for wood burning, probably, or something. Um, but I have other things that folks can use. Some folks have used, like, the, uh, the popsicle sticks, or You know what have you but I just have a big tub of those [00:45:00] and a bunch of paint markers felt little balls like glitter, um sticky little um, like crystal thingies like, um Yeah, just a bunch of stuff and the way that I run the workshop is it opens with a conversation about like what's a talisman, what's an amulet, sort of having that conversation.

Ron Padrón: and then a guided journey to connect with your queer ancestors to see if there's any sort of particular message, any particular sort of, Energy or feeling or or call to like what your talisman should look like or represent and then it's just I put on I have a queer ancestor playlist that is constantly growing also it's on my on spotify.

Ron Padrón: I also have it linked to my website and so we just put that on. I always have a community altar So I ask folks to bring anything like I will set up an altar for queer ancestors and i'll ask folks to bring Anything that they want to add to that altar and then we'll light some incense and then it's just kind of like a crafting party.

Ron Padrón: and then [00:46:00] folks will have their own ways of how they want to dedicate their amulet. I, I always try to do it wherever I'm doing it. I will always try to do, I do it in June and then I will try to see if there is a Pride event either where I'm doing it. Like if I'm doing it in Frederick, I'll try to do it like the Friday night before Frederick Pride, so that people can If they want, and this is just one of the things that I recommend people can take their talisman to pride in order to charge it.

Ron Padrón: Yes. Yeah. you don't have to, you can use it however you want. Um, so, so yeah, so no, they're not like pre made. I don't make them and sell them. It's a workshop so that people can create their own in whatever way that wants to show up for them. 

Tava Baird: That sounds like paradise. Craft, craft stuff. And I, I have to tell you, I am not going to be able to click fast enough over to Spotify to find the Queer Ancestor playlist.

Tava Baird: I want that too. 

Ron Padrón: Yeah, it is called, if you want to search around Spotify, it's the Queer Ancestor [00:47:00] Dance Party. 

Tava Baird: Yes, please. 

Ron Padrón: Yeah, which is also, if you go on my blog and you search that, there's also a ritual associated with it because in our previous house, So a big thing that I have in my backyard and I started our previous house is that a queer ancestor shrine That I built in the backyard.

Ron Padrón: I do a lot of shrine tending around that And I did some stuff that was during COVID. I did some some stuff. I may have been drinking And, uh, and I just wasn't really conscious about maybe sort of like saying, okay, thanks. And like my home words and I, my husband was upstairs doing something working probably.

Ron Padrón: And, uh, I. Just started. I didn't, it wasn't this playlist, but I just put on like pride classic, some sort of Pandora station probably. And I was just like downstairs with my dog, like dancing, like having like a beer or something. And then I just, I realized I was just like, Oh, I'm not dancing by myself. Like there are other people in this space with me right now.

Ron Padrón: And then realizing what I had done. And I was like, this [00:48:00] is actually like really cool. And like the, the space it created just was like, so welcoming. But then also you could tell that for some of the folks who were showing up, like some of the folks that had passed, who were showing up. We're folks who had never gotten to express themselves in that way.

Ron Padrón: And so this was a space for them to also be able to do that in community. Um, one of the things when I talk about community, I always make sure to remind folks that our community is not just the people who are alive with us right now. Um, so, so to be into that. So to be in community also means how are you making space for your ancestors?

Ron Padrón: How are you making space for the people who came before it? It doesn't mean you have to make space for all your ancestors, like you might have shitty ancestors. But how are you making space for that? And so that was an accidental thing that I was like, I want to, like, this is a thing that I want to keep doing.

Ron Padrón: And so then figuring out if I'm gonna keep doing this, it's not gonna be an accidental thing. How do I do it in a structured, contained environment that, Also sets up some bouncers to kind of keep, you [00:49:00] know, the not so great folks out of the club. Um, but yeah, and then that's what started the Queer Ancestor Dance Party playlist.

Ron Padrón: And like, usually in May, I'll post on socials. I'll be like, hey, are there any songs that you think I should add to this? and it keeps growing. But yeah, so you can look up Queer Ancestor Dance Party. I don't know how many playlists there are that are called that, but if you want mine, it's the one by White Rose Witching.

Tava Baird: Okay. Oh my god, I will totally link to that too.in this particular environment, I was looking for organizations to donate to. And I donate to the big national ones a lot, but, I know it was like, I didn't know a lot of my local ones and I was wondering if there were any that you recommend or people doing good work in our community who, obviously you're doing good work in our community and we should support you, but also, other organizations, maybe in the Maryland, DC, Virginia area, if people, most of our listeners are in this area, 

Ron Padrón: Yeah,so I'm in Maryland, [00:50:00] um, and specifically I'm in like the Baltimore area.

Ron Padrón: So, for me, I always try to route folks to things like Free State Justice or Trans Maryland. Other ones that I think of I'll send so you can also link to those two. but also then just thinking of, I tried to support the Maryland Food Bank, as well, just because I know.

Ron Padrón: Folks have been struggling, with some of the decisions being made. Prices and stuff are only going to go up. So I think folks will continue to be struggling. Me and, a lot of folks in my town, we love gardening. And so like, we will also grow fresh vegetables and all that sort of stuff. so not only do I try to support them monetarily, but some Maryland food bank, I don't Bank takes fresh produce, but there are some local food banks who will take fresh produce.

Ron Padrón: so when we have extras of things, we'll try to donate them that way. I would say your, uh, P flag, I think right now is an organization that's worth looking out, checking and donating to, whether it's your local chapter or, the national [00:51:00] one, just cause, they're really coming hard for the K through 12, kids.

Ron Padrón: And, um, and also I would say one of the things that I've been very intentional about the way I was witching over the last several years has been sponsoring more rural prides. partly because like the cost of sponsorship are a little bit outside of my budget, but like I don't really.

Ron Padrón: Kick money towards like Baltimore pride or DC pride or things like that. But like upper Chesapeake Bay pride, Hagerstown pride, Cumberland pride, the small towns are doing a lot of the, like, not to say that, like the cities and something that aren't doing great work and important work and necessary work, but the small town prides, um, are doing, they're on the front lines.

Ron Padrón: They're doing incredibly necessary work. Because, I was born in Miami, but then when I was in middle school, my parents moved us out of Miami and I kind of grew up in the swamp. so when I was starting to realize who I was, I was in a much more, I wasn't in a city. It wasn't a big city. It was a [00:52:00] pretty rural place.

Ron Padrón: folks, I think, tend to,Just assume the narrative of just like like oh once once you realize you're gay Then you move to the nearest big city, and then that's where you live Which you know and looking at our history There's definitely some validity to that a lot You know that there's a reason like Chicago and New York and San Francisco Places like that are known for their gay communities because they were a refuge for people, but there are tons of Rural queer people who chose to stay, uh, in their rural communities were not able to leave their rural communities for any, for whatever reason.

Ron Padrón: And so queer folks, queer kids exist in those spaces, and so the prides in those spaces are incredibly necessary to Carve out space for folks to be in community and joyful community, but also to kind of help them in doing the work in their communities to continue to push back against the hate. 

Tava Baird: Thank you so much for this.

Tava Baird: I have one last [00:53:00] question for you. What do you love the most about your work?

Tava Baird: It can be more than one. If there's, 

Ron Padrón: yeah, personally. So for, so for me, for like, what do I love for me? It's. Uh, the work that I have been doing over the last however many years, especially with Queer Ancestors has been a real source of strength for me. Um, I mentioned just now, realizing who I was, and I didn't come out until I was in college, so like, realizing who I was, uh, while living in a pretty rural space was very isolating, and there are parts of, when the panic or anxiety or the fear is really high, even today, um, there's a part of me that reverts back to being that like, ninth grader, closeted queer kid, like in the swamp, who was afraid to tell anybody, didn't feel like they could tell anybody.

Ron Padrón: Um, and so the work that I have done [00:54:00] with Queer Ancestors has made me feel like I have access, even if I'm by myself, that I have access to a supportive, welcoming, affirming queer community and queer family. Um, at the drop of a hat that they're always the they're right there. so it's been an incredible source of strength for me.

Ron Padrón: I think what I love the most about my work as far as like outside of that is, um, This is going to sound strange, I was raised Roman Catholic and I was an altar server in elementary school and the church that we went to, like, didn't have an actual church building, we met in a community center, so it was, it was really community oriented, community focused, and I really loved it, and when I was little I actually told folks that I wanted to be a priest, um, and then I left the church, when I came out, like, all this sorts of stuff, but, so I find it ironic that, Circle back 40 years and I ended up being a priest anyways, just in a different way.

Ron Padrón: so I think what I love the most about WillWorks that I'm doing now is that, um, I get to serve my community. Um, and especially that [00:55:00] I'm intentionally looking for ways to create sort of queer affirming and queer centered spaces. for me, it was a long journey. Like, even in my 20s, my queerness and my paganness lived in two separate boxes.

Ron Padrón: Um, and so it was a long journey for me to feel like that my queerness could exist in any sort of spiritual space. Um, and so that I can create spaces for my queer family. To understand that, like, no, you are a sacred being, you are a spiritual being, you, you have every right to access this part of your existence.

Ron Padrón: Um, that's, I think, what I love the most about the service part of what I do. 

Tava Baird: Oh my goodness. Well, Ron, this has been absolutely incredible. You are preaching to the choir, I will tell you. Uh, I, just for the record, I also was raised Roman Catholic. We did not have a church, we were in a school cafeteria. And I also wanted to be a [00:56:00] priest.

Tava Baird: Until I found out I couldn't be, based on gender. And so that, that need to, uh, serve people spiritually and reach out to everyone and say, you have a place here is very near and dear to my heart as well. Is there anything I haven't asked you about that you want to talk about before we go? Oh, 

Ron Padrón: man. Um, 

Tava Baird: so much going on.

Ron Padrón: Oh, uh, no. Um, I mean, I guess sort of like the general plug of, uh, of you can always follow me on socials. I do still have a Twitter X account. I don't use it. Um, I just, somebody had told me once that if I, if you delete your account, then other people can then eventually can use that name. And so, um, I, I have kept it because I don't want people to then take the name and do horrible things with it, but I'm not on there.

Ron Padrón: So if you're on Twitter and you follow me, don't expect anything there. I am on blue sky. Um, I am on Instagram. Like I [00:57:00] said, in threads, Instagram is probably the space where I'm the most active, if you want more, if you want more of. seeing me scream and yell about politics. That's on blue sky. Um, but also you can sign up for my monthly newsletter.

Ron Padrón: If you go to my Instagram or your website, but on the Instagram and the Lincoln bio, there's a direct link to sign up for the newsletter. Um, it is a monthly newsletter. Um, I don't want to, I don't like getting email spam. I don't want to spam other people. So I really, really, really, really limited to a month.

Ron Padrón: I think in the last four years, there's only been one time where I send something out. and it was sort of like a, uh, there was an emergent, there was an emergency situation happening in, uh, around like a legislative thing in Maryland. And it was like a, Hey, like, if you want to be able to like provide online testimony, here's how you do it.

Ron Padrón: but I really try to stick to the promise of once, uh, once a month. Um, and it's an end of the month roundup. So you'll get, my new moon. I do a monthly new moon divination. So you get, you'll get that, you'll get any blog posts, you'll get any updates, what have you.

Ron Padrón: Um, and then yeah, and then hopefully [00:58:00] the Patreon will launch soon and, um, I encourage folks, I really hope folks will sign up for it and help support me in this work, especially, um, right now. I really think the idea of spiritual activism Uh, liberation, queer liberation. There's a lot we can learn from the people who came before us.

Ron Padrón: I am an educator at heart, and sort of a historian. And so, a lot of the Patreon is going to be about, we don't have to reinvent the wheel. a lot of folks that came before us invented a lot of things. And we have more tools at our disposal than we think we do. We just forgot about them because they purposely don't teach us our history.

Ron Padrón: So it's going to be about teaching some of that history and how we use it today. So, keep an eye out for that and support me there. 

Tava Baird: guys, once that, once the Patreon is up, I will, happily love to publicize anything Ron does. I will also, pop things up in on my website.

Tava Baird: I will, get this out so that people can, can find you and support your work. Thank you so much for spending this time [00:59:00] after, um, a long day and sharing what you do with us. We really appreciate it.

Ron Padrón: Awesome. Thank you so much for having me. This was a wonderful conversation and I,hope we get to chat more, not even in like an interview setting. I just would love to spend more time around you. 

Tava Baird: Oh man, I will take you up on that. 

Jennifer Taylor: So I very much hope that you have enjoyed this interview as much as we have and I will just end this with a closing song that we had talked about a little bit at the beginning of this, and of which Sam Yel says is the making of passage. So may this bless your paths as you carry your blessings out into the world. 

Jennifer Taylor: [01:00:00] [01:01:00] oh,