Part 2 - The God Box

In this episode of Mystical Musings, hosts Jennifer Taylor and Tava Baird continue the discussion of souls and their myriad roles and paths while incarnated. Samael lays out for us 4 primary ways of viewing the world and the concept of God via an illustration the hosts affectionately and somewhat jokingly refer to as "The God Box." Jennifer shares a poignant story illustrating the interplay of souls and their roles on earth, while Tava explores more deeply the concepts of certain souls as "catalyst."  The episode concludes with additional channeled song and a special translated message from Lilith.  

resources Mentioned:

The Little Soul and The Sun by Neil Donald Walsh 

Please remember this podcast is for inspiration, reflection, and entertainment only, and is not medical, psychological, or professional advice.

We are two friends sharing personal experiences and evolving perspectives as we learn and grow. This is not a substitute for your own discernment, inner wisdom, or qualified professional guidance.

Take what resonates, trust your intuition, and seek licensed support when needed, always honoring your own inner knowing and personal truth.

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Connect with your Hosts!

Tava Baird:   tavabaird.com or https://darkflowerbooks.etsy.com.

Jennifer Taylor:  Amnivara (previously Willow Ridge Reiki and Healing Arts)           https://www.Amnivara.com/

Transcript

Part 2 - The God Box

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to part two of this Mystical Musings podcast. This doesn't have a quite its normal level of editing. the fertile ground. Gathering is upon us, 

But I really just wanted to get this out to you so that you would have an episode this week and wouldn't have to skip anything. And so stick with us. I think that even with some extra ums, it's going to be a fun and informative ride.

Jennifer Taylor: Alright, so I will, sing a settling song to prepare everyone. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. [00:01:00] [00:02:00]

Tava Baird: Is talking about you. If.

apparently you have a fan. Um, so this is what he said while you were singing. he doesn't usually just talk like this. He, he is being rather personal about his emotions. He says, [00:03:00] this space is blessed. This space is blessed. This is as you were as you were singing. A lesson for you, um, Shaah.

See how she settles with her voice, with the movement of her body. There is much for you to learn here. Uh, I think dad has a favorite kid and it's not me. I'm like, 

Jennifer Taylor: don't make her hate me. 

Tava Baird: Look what your older sister is doing. Okay? So, um, next time you speak with spirits, sing to them, add your own chants of words As you sew your dolls, she is in the flow.

She invokes with her being. You will do the same in your own way. She is a hymn. You will be a prayer. I will help you to write. And then he said something in what sounded like Arabic, and I have no idea what it meant. Look how in the movement of her bringing through, there is no doubt, [00:04:00] there is no rush. And then he laughed.

The singer has spiritual swagger, so to speak. Where did that come from in this last year? I look upon her work with a smile and am proud to call her a fellow practitioner. She crosses the threshold to great things. Do not let her go where you have much need of her gifts. You speak on my behalf now for the dead.

For both of you. Look how far you have come. The gathering will fatter any remaining walls of your doubt of worth, if you believe. 

Jennifer Taylor: Wow. 

Tava Baird: Yeah. Kudos, 

Jennifer Taylor: man.[00:05:00]

I, I don't think it gets better than those. 

Tava Baird: And apparently the gathering is gonna, us doing this is going to move us into a new head space regarding our own worth. 

Jennifer Taylor: Wow. But 

Tava Baird: I have to admit, I agree with him. When you are bringing through that song, there is no doubt there is no rush. A singer has spiritual 

Jennifer Taylor: swagger.

Spiritual swagger. That cracks me up. 

Tava Baird: I mean, I think if we were to go back and look the videos of our early podcasts. I bet you money that we're both going No, no. I could be wrong. Like every two minutes. Yes. Which we don't do anymore. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah, that's true. It's like this is just what happened. This is just what came through.

This is just what happened. 

Tava Baird: Here we go. We're not like [00:06:00] nervous to share it. We just do. And you used to sing, but now you get in there and have whole experiences on camera and there is, it's like, I'm going, Michael's coming. This is just, you know, songs coming through, gotta hit it now. And there is not a shred of that.

Sort of like cringey self-worth we both had when we started this. Where did that come from in this last year? I look upon her work with a smile, and I'm proud to call her a fellow practitioner. 

Jennifer Taylor: Wow. I, I am, I am so blown away. I mean, that is beyond what I would have ever even hoped to hear. Or think like, I mean, if you had asked me at the beginning of any of this, like, what is your biggest hope or dream?

I would not have come up with a serafin saying those words. [00:07:00] Like I would've been like, now that is ridiculous. Like that is too much. 

Tava Baird: We need to get you a t-shirt that says spiritual swagger. Um, I mean, but you know what, like I. We often don't stop and kind of reexamine ourselves. We're always just like forward, forward, forward.

Yeah. But I feel like we really are at this, like we've just crossed a threshold of some sort you while you were traveling out in Colorado and the song you were bringing through. I mean, and I mean, I cannot tell you if you had said to me a month ago. If you were gonna try to put a soul in the doll, first off, I would've gone now.

Now let's not get ahead of ourselves. We'll work up to that someday. But if you had said, if you were gonna try this, how would you go about it? I would've said, well, you have to catch the circle and you have to do all of it. You know, like you always talking about, I feel like my practice is evolving. And when I was in that house on [00:08:00] Tuesday, I was like, oh my God.

I kept thinking, I don't have any of my things to create a sacred space. I don't have any of my things. And then I realized, shit, what am I talking about, Jenn is singing The space is here. That's like if she wasn't here, I would probably do that, but it's more out of tradition than need. I had a crying soul and a crying human in the room and I didn't have to cast it.

'cause your voice made the sacred space where that entire transaction, that entire experience was happening. I, 

Jennifer Taylor: I mean, that's incredible. And I have to say, when I heard you say that at the beginning of what now will probably be two podcasts ago, I was like, I, I was really in awe because I knew you, played the song and I knew you were playing the music, but I hadn't heard that.

From you like in the podcast, it was [00:09:00] just like, okay, yeah, she's just playing the music and Yeah, that makes sense. It's kind of soothing and and stuff. But it's funny, when I was watching you just now talking and saying like, I didn't have all my stuff and all the things Yeah. I was thinking about, I was like, in my mind hearkening back to I don't know how many podcasts to go when we were talking about how.

Sam was saying, you need only your presence. all we really need is ourselves and to be really present and that that's really all we need. 'cause we were talking about all these different ways that, you know, you can use crystals, you can use all these different things. You can like candles, you can do all these various things.

And that ultimately it's us showing up. And the space that then is created in that, that really makes the difference. And I was thinking, I don't remember when sometime in the last couple days, completely [00:10:00] seemingly independent of this, I was thinking, you know, I used to do so much preparation.

Before sessions, before singing, you know, it's like if I was going to think, alright, I'm gonna make a recording. I'm gonna sit down, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna do reiki, I'm gonna do all this stuff on the walls, I'm gonna do all these things beforehand. And now it's like, it just happens. Like, I just step up and it's like, okay, I have the intention and then it's happening before I even think about it.

Yeah. And it's, and I've been wondering. Is this, is it? Part of it is just sort of all this almost like energetic muscle memory where I've done it so many times that now it kind of happens automatically. Or did I not actually need all that stuff to begin with? Or I guess it's like I needed that to get myself to this place where I felt confident that I had set the stage, I had set the space.

Yeah. And now I know that I can [00:11:00] just step into it. Yeah. And that knowing is really all I need because knowing is what instantly puts me in that vibrational space to be able to do it. But when you were talking about how, like I didn't have my stuff and I was like, no, you just showed up. You know, 

Tava Baird: I showed up and the thing that was also interesting to me is like that song, which facilitated everything.

You did all of that. You were not in your home studio. You were going to a hospital like you, I mean. All of the stuff we normally have sort of fell away. And I was turning it over in my mind about the experience so much is, so I had two helpers, right? If you had asked me a week ago, Hey, if you were gonna do this, and I would've said, wait, wait, wait, I'm not ready.

Then it happened. I would've said, well, obviously I would be carrying the doll. I would be doing this alone. I'm the doll maker. I'm, you know what it was? Nate carried the materials. I handed the [00:12:00] doll to someone else. You know what I, the only thing I had in my hands walking across that hall, that gate was your song playing.

I was carrying the music. So that tells you, which did I think was the most important part of what we were doing. I was carrying the song. So, I mean, and I just kept sitting there going, this did not go down. First off, I never would've imagined, I would've brought two people who had no idea what I was doing in and just pressed them into service.

Second, I never would've imagined that I would've handed that all holding a soul off to someone. I think I, you know, some of my ego was wrapped up in, I would do this, but I really, what I needed to do is I needed to. Get the living and the dead to work together. So we could do, we could fix this, but the thing, the only essential thing that I had to have in my hands was not the doll.

It was your song. 

Jennifer Taylor: [00:13:00] Wow. I am, I am just blown away and I'm so excited by all of these, these possibilities and the things that are coming up and the work that we're doing, and the work that we're stepping into and the. Just the world of possibilities that's opening and how we can share this stuff. I'm so excited.

Tava Baird: And next week we go and we do it, you know? Yeah. We go and we do it. And I was like, like even this morning I was like, okay, what is all the stuff I need to bring? What do I need to bring for the altar? And now I'm like, I'm gonna bring my prints. We can put our cards and stuff in. And, um, we are gonna have the water to put the, intentions in. 

but I was just like, we don't need to bring a ton of stuff.

I'm going to be there and you guys are gonna be singing and I'm literally gonna sit my ass down, and Sam Myel is gonna talk to them. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah, he's gonna 

Tava Baird: tell me what to do. He's gonna tell me what to say. And he keeps, he's [00:14:00] sitting over here saying, you are vessels. 

Jennifer Taylor: We are vessels of 

Tava Baird: spirits. 

Jennifer Taylor: We are vessels.

And very honored to be one. Interesting. One thing so As I finished the singing and I was making, you know, these big figure eights in the air with my hands and arms for those of you who aren't watching on like YouTube. And then at the end I came together in that like namaste prayer kind of pose.

And I had this image of a, symbol. And I sat here and kept trying to flush it out because it, for me, it was an infinity symbol that also added the swoop of the arms coming together in that, um, in that pose. But then I realized when I went to draw it, that that's, it was impossible to draw the way I saw it, but I think this is the closest that I can come.

And I feel like I've maybe seen this as a symbol before. I'll hold it up. But [00:15:00] this was a, there's so, go ahead. And it's probably still not exact. 

Tava Baird: There's something similar to that that I've seen in like Celtic Art. 

Jennifer Taylor: It's like, and I feel like originally I was trying to get the two parts to come together.

Rather than overlapping to for the, the, um, let me see if I can draw it. Kind of like hands, you know, for the points to come together. 

Tava Baird: Yes. 

Jennifer Taylor: More just kind of like that. But then when, but I realized it, it was kind of in impossible to draw an infinity symbol and that, and have all of the lines constantly intersecting.

And so I ended up with that version. But I, I am the same way. I feel like I've seen. Yeah, this symbol somewhere, but it, it, I felt like I made it in the air. And this kind of thing happens where like I'll hear a drumbeat as I'm singing and then I'll realize that it's absolutely impossible in like [00:16:00] physical life to put those two together with that rhythm.

Right? Like it doesn't work, but it, it worked in whatever realm I was in. Like those two things. Yeah. Went perfectly together at the time. Um. Yeah, I wonder, wonder if we could very interested do image 

Tava Baird: search. Like if we take a photo of it, I wonder if we could run it through an image search and see what comes up.

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. Well, we'll have to look into that. And I didn't know, and I know, um, Sam Iel has done various symbols and things. I don't, and maybe this ist even quite right. But I was like, 

Tava Baird: yeah, I'm curious if like all four of those are equal armed or like if one of the. There's kind of like, for those of you who can't see, there's like kind of this in, it almost looks like a Celtic, sort of an equal armed cross, but it swoops a lot more.

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. And in, in the way that I saw it, it definitely the left to right. Um, like the horizontal infinity symbol. Was the, the most [00:17:00] prominent, like it was much longer than it was tall. So there was the, okay, so much more to the side, going far from side to side, and then that's kind, this kind of swoop up and there it was important, it, it felt important that where the, the things meet was really pointed.

It was kind of pointed. 

Tava Baird: And you have one at the bottom too. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yes. And it's, yeah, it's reflected, it's mirrored. At the bottom so that that place where the the hands kind of come up together at the top is mirrored at the bottom. 

Tava Baird: So yeah, Sam, I'll just keep saying balance, balance, balance. I'm like, yep. It's very balanced.

Yes. Which boy did we need And

But it's also interesting. That's right. The song we were going to have you do right before we start talking about four boxes. Yeah. So. The four, there's, there's four points. Oh, that's true. There are, there's 

Jennifer Taylor: four and they're all, yeah. Yeah. And [00:18:00] it was like the idea of like everything like that infinity and coming together there was, there felt like this sort of reverence and joining and in that point, part at the top and the bottom, a almost like sort of, uh, a prayer or like an honoring of that infinity was kind of how the symbol felt.

Tava Baird: That's really cool. 

Jennifer Taylor: Oh, so we gotta look it up. We look it up. See we start, here's our settling balancing song. Before listening to, you talk about the boxes, the, I remember you saying the God box was, you were calling it at the beginning. 

Tava Baird: So I was like, what do I call this thing? It's the God box.

Yeah. And it's, it's, um, it's funny 'cause Samuel is nudging me about. Boxes. And I don't think I've actually drawn you a picture of the boxes yet. 

Jennifer Taylor: No, I feel like I have it. I, you, I feel like you've done such a good job of describing it.

Think [00:19:00] I described it that I feel like I have it, but yeah, I have not seen that. Yeah. The i the boxes are another thing that has shown up in the last couple weeks, 

Tava Baird: and that seems like it was so long ago. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. It's like, oh wow. So we haven't talked about that. I'm like, no. 'cause it was really only like two weeks ago.

Tava Baird: Oh my gosh. Um, I'm actually drawing it right out right now while I'm, while I'm here. Um, so, and, and, and the reason I think this is, is coming up and why he's nudging me on this is, you know, we're talking about what happens if you hit death and your perspective has been, there is nothing outside the physical of what I could see.

Like, and then suddenly you go. Okay. I'm not physical and I'm still here. Like, that fact alone is gonna rock you to your core. [00:20:00] Like imagine if you, all, everybody listening to this podcast woke up tomorrow morning and the, there was a fairy sitting on your pillow, like an actual sprinkled pinker bell holding a tooth in her armpit, fairy sitting on your, that would blow your mind.

Like, you'd be like, oh, what did I eat that was bad. I haven't had enough sleep. Wow. You know, like you would, it would rock your world. It would affect the way you saw everything as you walked through your day. Are there more of them out here? What else is out here? You know, and I. And that's one of the things that I've, you know, I've been having literally this week, which is probably why I sound a little rattled, is I went from being able to, to see and hear nothing two and a half years ago, other than to feel energy moving through me when I did witchcraft to hearing [00:21:00] and seeing Sam ael to hearing and seeing him stronger and louder and more constant.

And then, you know, suddenly I started, could see things moving around me. I would see energies, be able to see energies, then getting touched by things. And now there's just chatter, like I go certain places and there's, there's multiple things. Just having their say and it's altering my view of, you would think, okay, you've had semi around for like, you know, a year and a half, two years.

But I kind of thought, okay, well it's just him. Your brain goes, it's just that one thing. It's fine, you know? And, and it's fine. He seems okay to being in a place where I could hear. And the other thing is, is that he's very calming and patient, and now I'm hearing things [00:22:00] complain,

you know, and, and cry or, you know, and that that changes you a little bit. Um, so I wanna, this is something that Sam Mayel had me draw and write down, and I've been sharing it with a couple of people, and Jen was across the country, so I, I described it to her. But, um,

and I'm just gonna write down these last few things here so that I, I have a decent picture here. Um. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. It's funny when you first said that he was nudging you to talk about that, I was thinking, wow, we're really jumping all around to all these different things. But when I think about it, it makes per, that's exactly what we're talking about.

That's how, this is the work that you start doing here, so that, yeah, when you cross over, this [00:23:00] isn't such a strange idea. And you have that sense already of kind of how things work and you know, a lay of the land. And that's exactly what they say. And Shamanism too is the, there's so much of an emphasis on doing this work and learning the landscapes and learning the, you know, the lay of the land on the other side of the veil so that it isn't such a, it's not a shock.

And you, it's not the first time you've been there, you know, it's like you, you've already kind of charted the territory ahead of time. 

Tava Baird: It's, it's so funny because after he had me write this down, and, you know, this may have sh something similar to this has probably shown up in philosophy or, you know, classes or religious studies classes, other places.

But I got mine from Sam Myel. And so if you've heard something like this before, I would love to know about it because I hadn't kind of made it broken down for me like this before. And [00:24:00] once I got this, I was like, man, I wish this had been episode one of the podcasts, because it really is sort of like a square one lesson.

Okay. And so what Samuel Ael is talking about, and I'll, I'll hold this up to the camera for when I eventually get this put up on YouTube, but I'm gonna describe it to you. He's talking about belief and. He is talking about the way we tend to view the divine here in America and in a lot of our western societies, right?

Um, and, you know, European society, that sort of thing. So he says, you know, there, there are lots of atheists out there, there are people who say, you know, I only, you know, I'm pure science. I am the, I only, you know, I only trust what I can see. All these different things he wants to point out for, for everyone that while we are embodied, we cannot have [00:25:00] all the answers.

Otherwise, there would be no point to our incarnation. We would have nothing to learn, right? So while we are here, because we don't have all the answers, even though he keeps throwing us bones here to think about, we even, he doesn't have all the answers. He has stressed that as well. Um, while we are here, we can either choose to believe in nothing, to believe in something.

And he says, if you choose to believe in something to have a, a spiritual practice, then for that spiritual practice to be beneficial, why would you choose to have one that wasn't beneficial to you? Right? You might as well just believe in nothing then, right? It should satisfy three, could have three qualities.

First one is it should provide comfort. And he's not talking about you can buy a nice sofa with it. He means it's giving you spiritual comfort. [00:26:00] You feel good, right? It's helping you. So number one, belief systems should provide comfort. Number two, should answer questions about the world in the universe around you, or at least help you to understand and believe that the answers.

Are accessible at some point you might not have all of them, but there isn't just a, well, you're never gonna get this like that. There are answers out there and that you can learn. And C should provide some sort of moral guidance or output, you know, where you can sit there and say, in light of my spiritual practice, we always talk about is this in the highest good?

Right? That's a moral thing right there. We don't wanna be out there throwing around what isn't in the highest good for other people. So, and if you look at a lot of the world's religions, a lot of them [00:27:00] have, you know, they try to comfort by telling people you've got this. They try to answer questions, so aren't so great about that.

And we'll get to that in a minute. And number three, one thing they're really good at is moral guidance. Even if it's a faith that was propped up by the Roman Empire and mostly used for, to enforce, to help enforce their laws, it's still providing guidance. Okay, so, so we're gonna look at four different views of God or the divine, I'm just gonna use this word, divine God.

Four different views of God that people in the west tend to have. And we're gonna look and see, does this view provide comfort, answer questions and offer moral guidance doesn't do those three things. What the heck are we doing with it? So at this point, Samuel had me draw a big square and [00:28:00] draw an equal armed cross dividing it in the center.

So sort of like, uh, like four square when you were in elementary school. Okay. Just basically got a big box with four compartments and they're labeled A, B, C, and D. And it doesn't really matter which order you. In box A. He says, many people in the west say there is no God. He says, okay. From a purely logical standpoint, does that provide comfort to 

Jennifer Taylor: you?

Tava Baird: I don't know about you, but it doesn't, the fact that there's no divine doesn't provide any comfort to me. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. 

Tava Baird: Does it answer your questions about the universe? Well, I have lots of questions. I see patterns and cycles all through nature. I see people treating each other lovingly. I see, you know, all sorts of wonderful miracles around me.

Doesn't kind of answer my questions about how those things exist or how [00:29:00] the destruction of them exists. Like what's the rhyme or reason here, if there's just nothing. I see too many repeated patterns to think that there isn't a design here, so it fails on that answer. Questions idea. And does, there is no God provide any sort of moral guidance.

Well, it seems like it's a free for all then, doesn't it, folks? We can do whatever we want, right? So that's not really giving me any guidance so much. I don't have a, why am I here that, so Sam Mayel says, I do. I think this is really funny when an angel says this, I do not hold with the fact that, that there is no God, I do not agree with box A.

And I'm like, obviously. So there is, there is no, God isn't really serving us as a spiritual practice or as theory. We're forced to be out there on our own without a lot of comfort, no moral guidance, and our questions are unanswered, right? [00:30:00] E, next box, box B, the idea that God was here but he left. Okay. You know that God showed up, made nature, put all of these plan, you know, things in place.

There was a divine hand, but then he beat feet and now we're on our own. We're just a cart racing downhill. We have no way to stop it. We don't, you know, and we don't know why he so does that comforting we'll know that's essentially being abandoned. I don't find that comforting at all. No one's driving the cart and that I don't really, that this idea of God, that, you know, I'm a little human.

I don't, I don't get to be a part of trying to figure out the solution. B, does it answer questions? No. The main question I have is, why did he leave? Was there another better planet somewhere probably? And C, does it give me moral guidance? No, it just sort of makes me depressed. Therefore, [00:31:00] Amel says he does not recommend a spirituality, but follows plan B.

See, and this is the one that most people here have. God is here. He's either all loving, angry, or works in mysterious ways. Now this sound familiar? Okay, we have a deity. That is everything. God is love. God is love. Well, if that's the case, then why do we have war? That's not answering my questions. God is angry.

Let's take a look at the Bible where the frogs came raining down from the sky and the firstborns were being killed in the streets. I don't find that comforting. I don't, that's, that's actually kind of terrifying, right? And I mean, I guess you could be all loving, but also, you know, doesn't really [00:32:00] seem that way from what we've got.

From the books we've been used to teach about this. Um, and the God works in mysterious ways. Seems like something that somebody say when there's a tragedy and they don't have a solution for going straight from God is love to a young child just died. Right? That doesn't, that's not answering our questions.

Mysterious is literally the, the fact of we're not answering questions at all. We always hear that, that he's unknowable, he, you know, beyond our fathoming. Okay? But it doesn't comfort, it doesn't answer my questions and it doesn't necessarily offer me moral guidance. But this is where the majority of Americans that have spiritual practices firmly plant their feet.

This is our, I'm going to church on Sunday for a lot of people, right? Not all of them. There's awesome churches out there perhaps do a better job with these nuances. [00:33:00] But for a lot of people, they're just sort of in box C and they don't necessarily feel like they understand the divine. So now we get to box D.

Okay. This is the alternative to the other boxes, that it isn't just as would say, one big old man who lives in the sky, that the divine is many, it's many entities, it's many forces. They are all part of one, but that they often are working in different ways now, and and Samuel all wishes to point out, and this is probably the most important part of this thing, this notice that this box does not eliminate the possibility that you are also divine, not a child of God, but part of that.

Right, [00:34:00] that you are divine. That certainly reframes things for us, right? And that's what we've been talking about on this podcast forever. He says, now we can take box D and we can divide it into two areas. There's a lot of divine energies and there's divine work going on, and there are many, many, many entities involved in this.

We can either say that they tend towards chaos, or we can say that they tend towards moving themselves down the path towards a greater unification, a greater flow at a great, something greater than they are separate. If you choose the chaos path, I do not. Maybe it's just my age, but I don't find chaos.

Comforting chaos would explain a lot of questions. Why do bad things happen to good people, right? That could do that. But it doesn't necessarily answer the question of how we're supposed to combat the chaos. [00:35:00] And chaos does not really provide moral guidance other than let's set some stuff on fire. So Samuel does not believe that the chaotic is where we should put our faith.

He instead says, moving towards the flow, and this is what he's been talking about to us all this time. The divine has many, many expressions. It has manifests itself in many different ways. This little earth that we are on is just one place and one experience, and there's many, many things outside of this.

There are hardships on this earth and part of being embodied. And we have chosen the embodied that come down here. We have chosen to be in these bodies to help have the experience of being embodied because it helps [00:36:00]information back to sort of the collective. And because it gives us opportunities in the face of great university to walk with compassion, love, and to seek knowledge.

And imagine that this earth is sort of a big laboratory. When things go wrong in the laboratory, we are here to try to deal with them and pull ourselves together. You've always heard that idea of like heaven in heaven as it is on earth, sort of thing. You know, the as above, so below, we are all embodied.

Souls right now trying very hard to replicate that feeling of belonging and divine love. Fear a boy, have they thrown some tough stuff at us for that? Yeah. Incredibly tough stuff. I have a wonderful friend named Mark who listens to the [00:37:00] podcast and he was even talking about the theory of what about if some of these embodied souls down here 

Jennifer Taylor: who 

Tava Baird: create chaos?

What if that's part of their job to see how we reach out to one another despite them, God, I wouldn't wanna be that soul. But it's an interesting theory to think about, isn't it? 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. That, 

Tava Baird: you know, and, and that in our forgetting and our feeling of separation and disconnect. We still have to try to find our way back to each other.

And when we can finally do that here on earth, this laboratory won't need to have any more science done, and we can shut it down, right? And we'll remember together. So Samuel Mayel wants to point out, he, that's the view of the universe that he's speaking from. And so when somebody says, oh, you know, are you into all that woo woo stuff and [00:38:00] what do you do?

You know what? I can either, you can choose to believe in nothing, but does it provide you comfort, answer your questions and give you moral guidance? If it does great for you, I see a bigger picture. I see something that makes me want to reach out to the other souls here and the souls that are on the other side of the veil so that we can all move forward together.

Jennifer Taylor: the, concept that you were saying that Mark had brought up, there's a really awesome book called, The Little Soul, and the Son by, Neil Donald Walsh, I believe. I'll look and make sure. But yeah, the person who wrote, conversations with God, and it really speaks to that where the idea is they're like, kind of up in heaven and there's all these little souls and this little soul comes to God and God is [00:39:00] telling it that, it is a light and it's like, but I can't see my light because everything is light.

Like it's up there around all souls, all the light, everything is just bright and there's, this bright sun and it's saying you can't see the light of a single candle in the sun. you can't differentiate you can't experience yourself as that. But when you, if that soul is placed into darkness, it can see its light all of a sudden it has a perspective and it can see the light that it is and recognize it.

And, it's very much set up as like, totally the way that people think of it as, a little soul, sort of like a little angel. And the idea of God being kind of like the old man in the sky. But nonetheless, , there's this conversation back and forth of well, how do I know 

what kind of light I am and I want to experience this. And God's like, you can experience any aspect of love that you are, and [00:40:00] the little soul thinks about it and says, well, I want to, experience myself as forgiving. And God's like, well the only problem is there's nothing to forgive.

And the little soul's really sad I don't get to experience myself as one that is forgiving. And he's like, well, you're God, Like, figure out something. And so God's like, okay, you can go down to earth and be in this body and something will happen and then all the other little souls gather around to see what's happening.

And he's like, but you're gonna need somebody to forgive. And this other little soul and, which is they talked about, is also just perfect and divine. is steps forward and says, I will come, I will choose to come down there with you and allow you to have the experience of experiencing yourself as forgiving.

And I says, but I will have to lower my vibration to such a point that I don't even remember that I am the light [00:41:00]but I will do this for you so that you can experience this. And it's absolutely beautiful. And the soul's like, oh my gosh, you would do that for me.

And it says, of course we have, we have both done this for each other. Many times we have been the good and the bad of it. The in and the out, the up and the down of it. You know, this is what we do for each other. but just know that I may have to lower my vibration to such an extent in order to do whatever horrible thing I'm gonna have to do to you so that you can really experience this, that I may forget myself entirely.

And then I'm going to need you to remember my light and remember who I am. I get, I cry every time I tell a story and every time I read this. Um, but it's, you know, I'm gonna need you to remember you do the remembering for me of who I am. And if you get so lost in your inability to kind of experience the forgiving, then we will need someone else [00:42:00]to be able to recognize who we really are to help to pull us out of this.

But I will go in and I will do this, and God is talking and the, the, you know, the little soul's like, oh my gosh, of course I could never forget. I could never forget how amazing you are. And as the little soul is going down to be, to be born and come into this world, God says, remember, I have sent you only angels.

And so I, I think that's such a, 

Tava Baird: now I'm crying too. 

Jennifer Taylor: I know. Like I cannot, I I always read this before I start teaching the spirit release and how to do the spirit release process to help get rid of that fear of the spirits and the, of the ideas of the other things that we're helping to bring healing to.

And that it's all just something that has forgotten its magnificence. And, I think that that really aligns so much with what Mark is saying. you know, it could be that some of the beings that are hurting us, that are giving us an opportunity to [00:43:00] experience ourselves as forgiving as one who forgives.

Um, you know, could be all a part of the plan. Yeah. Um, and it's interesting, don't, because I've thought about getting Sam Miles's perspective on that because I, I would read that book and think, well, now I wonder if, I wonder if he kind of agrees with that. And I'm sure there are lots of different aspects.

There are lots of different things that are going on here with, um, you know, and I know he's talked about those that have completely separated themselves from who they are. I think it was in your first book of Sam. Yeah. 

Tava Baird: We called to about catalysts is what Yeah. Being to be called as being 

Jennifer Taylor: catalysts.

But I, I think it's really interesting. If you look around your life and you think about those who have caused you the greatest pain and how can we work to find and remember who they really are behind their forgetting. 

Tava Baird: Mark was telling [00:44:00] me, and Mark, I know you're probably gonna listen to this at some point, and so I'm afraid I'm gonna botch this.

'cause this was weeks ago in a Marco, I think he said he read a short story that was similar in the short story. A soul goes is between lifetimes and there, and the soul shows up sort of in the in-between place or in heaven or whatever you wanna call it. And there is a long bank, a long counter with windows at it.

And there are lines at all of the windows and the soul's like, what is this for? It's basically looks like everyone's buying a train ticket, you know? And um, it's explained that these are the lines to get reincarnated to go back to earth. And the different windows are the different types of souls you will be like where you're gonna start off and who you're gonna be.

There's one window at the end. There's nobody in line. And he asks like, what's the deal with that window? And he says, oh, the person who's explaining it to him says that's window, [00:45:00] the person nobody wants to be. The, the bad thing is, is that that person is essential to helping all of these souls advance in their next lifetime.

He's the adversary, he's the one who destroys and the soul stands there and says, I'll, I'll take one for the team. And he walks down to that window. Um, now I'm crying. Probably gonna need a tissue break. Welcome 

Jennifer Taylor: back to the podcast. Know we're just crying, 

Tava Baird: you know, you know, on friends where it was always like the one where blah, blah, blah.

This podcast episode is the one where Jen and Tava cry. Um, um, um. Hang on a second. Sam else saying something? Let me just write it down. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. 

Tava Baird: So we were talking about, you know, do we think someone [00:46:00] is behaving as a catalyst on earth because they've simply lost their way, or they're so damaged that they're down here, that they've forgotten their humanity, or could they be a soul that's making a choice? And Sam Mayel says, it is unknowable in your form, why they are here.

And you still rise and take some of them with you as you do love harder, Umshallah

So he'd not gimme the answer on that one. And you know what? It would change how, if, if I walked up to someone that I thought was an adversary and that really, really bothered me and I saw them paring things down, if I knew that they had made this choice to help us, I would treat them differently then as someone who I think is making conscious choices because [00:47:00] they're not listening and they are just bent on their own power.

But what Samuel is saying is it they don't tell us that for a reason. No. No matter what the cause is, we still need to find a way to rise ourselves. And take some of the others that may have fallen into the wake, take as many of them with us in the wake of that destruction as we rise. And that loving harder is what we have to do.

And to organize. We gotta organize our butts off. 

Uh, Samuel would like to elaborate a little bit more on the idea of loving harder. He says, I am not suggesting that love harder means, turn the other cheek, if a catalyst is abusing you, or threatening abuse, that is never to be [00:48:00]assimilated or tolerated. When I speak of love, I speak of love for the world.

Do not allow a catalyst to rob you of your energy, your compassion, and your hope. Do not allow them to numb you. That is how they win. Instead, love yourself and those around you more. Raise your vibration to protect those who need it. A catalyst often cannot change in this incarnation. Accept that. And direct your strength and love towards tearing down the walls built by the catalyst so that they struggle to find shelter.

Love is the strongest force. The catalyst would wear you down and have you forget that. So he's saying that, uh, loving harder is what we need to do, but he certainly doesn't [00:49:00] mean that, that means stand there and be abused. Uh, Samuel, especially in light of Lilith's story, uh, would, would, would not condone that.

Jennifer Taylor: And you know, when you think about it, it's not that those who are catalysts are necessarily conscious of what they're doing because I, I'm, I don't think they could do their job as a catalyst if that is the case, if they were conscious because they would be too aware of the damage that they were causing and the things that they were doing, I think to be able to go through it and to be able to really live and like play that part.

Um, but yeah, the, the loving them, it doesn't change our job of loving them regardless of. Why they're, you know, why they're here. 

Tava Baird: Yeah. 

Jennifer Taylor: I don't know, I feel called to say this, and I'm not even sure exactly how it [00:50:00] a hundred percent ties in, but I have had the personal experience of working closely in support of individuals , whose 

the psychological evaluations say, they have the full makeup of a sociopath. And you see the behaviors and the things that come out of those individuals, and. The behaviors that seem like, you know, there is just nothing there.

Like there's no empathy, there's no, compassion. Everything comes from a self-serving place. And I've been privy to the behind the scenes information from very early on in their life and see what created that, see what kind of turned them into something that doesn't have the capacity for compassion or for empathy based on the incredible amounts of trauma or things that have happened to them.

And witnessing [00:51:00] that, it's that again, that hurt people. Hurt people, really, having been able to see. Really up close and watch that kind of development gave me a perspective and a way of being able to look out into the world and say, that person who did these horrific, unimaginable things there is a soul that is like ours underneath all of that.

But that, the culture, the situations, the things around it created it and molded them into, who they are. But being able to see that underneath all of that is a really hurting little inner child. that feels so unsafe and so afraid that.

This is what they've had to do to survive. , I think about, I've learned recently that when something gets, into the parts of your body where it shouldn't be like [00:52:00] a rupture in an intestine and it ends up all in the insides of your body that if there's little bits of that left behind your body creates what they call an abscess, it basically walls that off and kind of seals it inside so that it can't pollute the rest of the body.

And I think it's like that's kind of what happens to that inner child when it experiences such in incredible trauma. It like creates this walled off thing, but rather than protecting the rest of the body from it, it actually is to protect it from all of the things that are around it. so I think that loving harder.

Is, and it doesn't mean that it will necessarily directly change that individual's choices or behaviors, but it can help to raise the tide. what's that saying? A rising tide lifts salt boats. Yes. 

But just the fact of raising the vibration through being that loving force, makes the difference. 

Tava Baird: Here's um, when I was [00:53:00] doing my Montessori training for infant toddler, there was this incredible study and gosh, I wish I could remember which university it was, but they wanted to know, are humans born with empathy?

Like, is that our natural state or is it learned? And there was this lab, I wanna say it's Yale, but you know, it could have been Stanford or something else. They had an early childhood development laboratory, and they would have these parents come in with their very young babies, you know, babies who could see a, a little bit of a distance, you know, weren't verbal yet.

and, you know, we're, we're little babies. And they would set up these puppet shows where one puppet would come in and another puppet would come in and be helpful to the first puppet. Then they would have a puppet come in who was unkind to the first puppet, and they would chart the reactions of these babies, and the babies would get very [00:54:00] agitated and upset.

Whatever that came in that was being unkind and very happy and reaching for the puppets that were behaving in a beneficial way. The conclusion of this study that was done, you know, fully scientific method is that, you know, these children are very, very, very young. That we are born with a natural empathy for other human beings.

That this is part of our makeup. And it doesn't matter what class you come from or what background you come from or what part of the country you come from, or anything that we have a natural inclination to want to embrace scientists and to be kind and to promote it. and then you sort of look at the world around us and you say, well, where did that go by the time we became adults?

And it's exactly what you're talking about. We have so many ways in which the world can wound. [00:55:00] And Sam Mayel says here, humans are designed for empathy in its absence. try to rescue as many as you can. Through the frustration, through the outrage, through the anger meets the moment. Love the world Anyway.

So we just have to remember we are designed to care. And anybody who tells us we're not, didn't read that lovely study. 

Jennifer Taylor: And I was wondering, going all the way back to the beginning of the last podcast, , did Sam Iel get the song that he wanted? Because I know a song had come in as he was speaking before, but yeah, I wanted to make sure he got the song he wanted. 

Tava Baird: All right. Let me ask him. 

So he says, yes, yes, yes, [00:56:00] singer. I like it very much. Will you be doing more? 

Jennifer Taylor: I was thinking, I better, because I think now. Now our conversation may end up being two different podcasts 

Tava Baird: All right, so now I guess we need a song just to end everything.

Yes. 

Jennifer Taylor: Um, 

Tava Baird: so, goodness. Here comes the pen. Yeah. 

Jennifer Taylor: Alright. So a song to add. Anything he just said, 

Tava Baird: he just said, I will sit quietly. I do not believe that for a moment. 

Jennifer Taylor: We would probably be sad if he did any guidance coming into this one that he would like to share as to the kind of closing or integrating kind of song of all of this.

Tava Baird: It says, I have made many requests. Move as you must singer, 

Jennifer Taylor: move as I must. That is really kind of accurate. It's like I must move in these ways. It's not a choice really. Yeah. Alright, I'll switch things [00:57:00] over.[00:58:00] Wow.

Tava Baird: I feel like all I keep saying today is this hasn't happened before. 

Jennifer Taylor: I feel like we say that a lot these days. So are you ready? I think as ready as I'm gonna be, 

Tava Baird: you started singing and I just started drawing [00:59:00] flowers. Flowers and flowers and flowers. And flowers and flowers. Five pointed, like six pointed, four pointed flowers.

And then Samuel came in and he said, Lilith has a message in flowers. And he was translating what she wanted to tell us. Oh, wow. I have not had this happen to me. I don't think so. I mean, I've, there's things Samuel Mayel has said about Lilith. I know you've had experiences with Lilith. I've know, I've sensed that she's around, and Samuel Mayel has helped translate some things that she sent to you.

But like he is straight up delivering in words a message from her. It says, can you feel me? Now dance. At the end of a long journey, we spiral. We raise our hands, we ululate in victory. The women have risen, samsel [01:00:00] risen to lead the tribe. Give thanks to the water at the gathering and touch it to your tongue.

You are now outside the lines. 

Jennifer Taylor: Wow.

We did it, we made it outside the lines.

Oh, Keith was saying there was a creek 

Tava Baird: at the park for the gathering. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's a stream that runs through it. So yeah. Let's, uh, let's go gather it. Let's go get some water. Shall we gather by the river 

Tava Baird: and touch it to our tongues? Give thanks. The women have risen. Risen to lead the tribe.

Give thanks to the water at the gathering and touch it to your tongue. You are now outside the lines. 

Jennifer Taylor: Wow. And the symbol came through, I think. I think I have figured it [01:01:00] out. It's not quite as long as it's supposed to be, but where did it go? I think that there it is, is what it's supposed to be. 

Tava Baird: I am wondering, I'm wondering, 'cause I mean I'm drawing, I'm like, you can even see there's like little flowers and stuff on my pa on this part of the one, part of the page.

Um, and like that's, I was kind of like mimicking the symbol when it started and then it kind of evolved into little flowers. Um, I'm wondering if that symbol has something to do with worth and like, if, if it's either a sacred space symbol or if it has something to do with Lili. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah, I. That's really because as soon as you started talking, I, it was like, I have it.

I know how to draw it. Like it, it, it came through like right away. 

Tava Baird: I think it might have her wondering if this is like either a self-worth symbol or a symbol of moving into stepping forward, moving into a new area, some sort of [01:02:00] symbol we're supposed to use to represent what we're doing together. Um. It was actually funny because I also had a really strong feeling that I'd seen it before.

I like, I was like, because there's the, the publisher as you know, is, has redesigned the Wildwood cover and at one point they, they put some sort of symbol up toward the top that was supposed to be like, there's like a, a cross called the Witches Cross. And I'm like, is this the witches crossed? So I actually opened up the document and I'm like, no, that's not it.

What the heck have I seen this? So. I think this might have. Yeah, 

Jennifer Taylor: we're gonna have to look into that. 

Tava Baird: Yeah. Yeah. This is definitely interesting. But Lilith has a message in flowers. 

Jennifer Taylor: Wow. Did you use, was Undulate the word? 'cause some of your words are getting caught up when you're, when you're talking, some are getting cut off sound.

Sounded like he said. Really? 

Tava Baird: Really? What is it when, when people do, when they like. Do like a tribal cry [01:03:00] in the back of their throat. What is that called? Oh, because I hearing that. Did you say U UV late or UV late? I think it's, let me try looking up. It said something that sounded like ate, but there were other sounds happening 

Jennifer Taylor: because there's the uvula, I think is the name for the thing that hangs down in the back of the thing.

So I could, I could see how it could have something to do with that. 

Tava Baird: Ate means to utter a loud, high pitched rhythmic sound, often as an expression of sorrow, joy, celebration or reverence. Essentially, a type of howling or wailing, often used in cultural rituals or expressions of strong emotion. And there are recordings of people doing a.

Jennifer Taylor: Oh, that's fascinating. Yeah. I've never heard that word before. Ate and apparent. 

Tava Baird: And there's even like, you know how they do, like, people also ask why do Muslims ate? [01:04:00] Huh? So I'm trying to, trying to see here if I, I feel like I've 

Jennifer Taylor: definitely made that sound. Before, yeah, in sessions and things like made sound like something that would be described as ululating, uh, if that's a word.

Ululating. 

Tava Baird: Yeah, it's spelled U-L-U-L-A-T-E.

And let me see if I can, there's a video here by someone random. Um, let me see if, oh, I don't know if my computer will play it with my microphone plugged in, but I, you can look it up. And there are people, there are videos of people ululating. 

Jennifer Taylor: That's fascinating. 

Tava Baird: There's even one called, there's even a little video from BBC News Africa Ations.

What you didn't know about this ancient sound. Hold on. Uh. Ations are widely practiced in many countries [01:05:00]across the African continent. They're usually uttered during moments of great joy, celebrations and victory to name a few. And then there's a whole bunch of people talking about, um, in south a, like people writing in saying in South Africa, women normally ululate, uh, signs of congratulations.

They do them at weddings and, and celebratory feasts. Um, they are often used as motivation by women to give strength and bravery to their men, children, or community in dangerous or tough experiences. It is always women who you relate. And then somebody else says, when a baby is born. Um, a, a certain number of ations were made raising from four rounds to ones with 21 voices layered on top of the other, and that's a symbol of joy that an ancestor has returned.

They would also do it when a man returns from a journey to a [01:06:00] far away land or for more, or after being initiated into like a traditional. Like cult or something like that. There's all these people writing about how it's used. Isn't that cool? Well, it's always done 

Jennifer Taylor: by women. 

Tava Baird: That's what this guy writes on here.

This is the BBB news. BBC News Africa site on Facebook. 

Jennifer Taylor: Oh, that's fascinating. And there's also, we learned a new word today. We learned a new 

Tava Baird: word. You late. 

Jennifer Taylor: Wow. 

Tava Baird: Yeah, there's a whole, there's all sorts of things on it. So now we're gonna have to dive down the uation, uh, rabbit hole and learn all about it.

Jennifer Taylor: Wow. Well, that is really exciting. 

Tava Baird: And you as a singer, I can't wait to have you hear some and see, like, if you're like, woo, that, like, that, you know, that resonates. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. I really, yeah. I can't wait to, and I feel like I've heard. It, it's one of those [01:07:00] things that it feels like, it's just on the outside of my awareness.

I, I feel like I can almost hear them. Yeah. And like I know that sound. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure we've probably heard it in. People have used it in films or something. Yeah. Background of things in films and in, uh, documentaries and things, and just not realized what it was that they were doing or what we were hearing because, um, they were probably also speaking other languages.

And we may have just thought, I think I probably just thought, oh, that's just part of, 

Tava Baird: yeah. 

Jennifer Taylor: You know what they, they're saying something. 

Tava Baird: Well, I, I just, uh, we spiral, we raise our hands. We ate in victory. The women have risen, Samuel risen to lead the tribe. Give thanks to the water at the gathering and touch it to your tongue.

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. Oh, I can't wait. Yeah. Well, this is gonna be amazing. 

Tava Baird: Um, that note, folks, that's [01:08:00] probably, that's the end of another episode of the podcast. Uh, hope that you have a wonderful week walking outside the lines. 

Jennifer Taylor: Amen to that.