Letting Yourself Fall: The Caretaking Overdrive

Tava Baird and Jennifer Taylor discuss recent weekends spent receiving guidance: Tava attended the Sacred Space/Between the Worlds Pagan conference in Maryland, praising its advanced classes, rituals, vendors, and community, while Jennifer used a hotel retreat to clarify how Amnivara will be offered. They explore the theme of “falling” as choosing to let responsibilities drop, accept help, and allow others to find their wings, contrasting this with misreading urgency and over-functioning as caretaker. Tava shares the growth of Samael and Lilith's work,  and balancing authenticity with scale. Jennifer's channeled music and Samuel’s messages emphasize worthiness of rest, choosing retreat as reorganizing energy, and pilgrimage to one’s inner holy place. They plan personal retreats and invite listeners to do the same.

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Connect with your Hosts!

Tava Baird: tavabaird.com or https://darkflowerbooks.etsy.com.

Jennifer Taylor: Amnivara (previously Willow Ridge Reiki and Healing Arts) https://www.Amnivara.com/

Transcript

Jennifer Taylor: [00:00:00] good morning, Tava Baird. 

Tava Baird: Jennifer Taylor. How are you? 

Jennifer Taylor: I am well, thanks. I'm excited to have another conversation and see where it goes. 

Tava Baird: Me too. I just got back from the Sacred Base between the World's conference in College Park, Maryland. If you are Pagan and haven't gone I highly recommend that you look up the dates for next year.

They've already published them, it's actually was two conferences this year that Merge. Sacred Space, I believe is the one that happens every year, but between, the World's only happens when certain astrological configurations come into play and then Oh, cool. They have a joint conference and this year was one of the joint ones.

It has some of the most Premier Pagan teachers from [00:01:00] all. Over I mean, they had teachers from LA and Massachusetts and I mean, everything you could possibly want to take deep dives into is there. And they have ritual. I mean, I think there were probably about 800 to a thousand practitioners there.

And it's designed for more advanced practitioners. You know, they're not doing sort of an entry level magic 1 0 1 type stuff. You are getting into, um, you know, plants and their angelic correspondences and astrology. I went to an absolutely fabulous class on Ukrainian folk doll making for, use in magic.

Just wonderful, wonderful. Thanks. There's a gala, it's where everybody dresses up they have a vendor area that's [00:02:00] fricking phenomenal, but I think I spent three quarters of my time just sitting and talking to people and learning, and it was, dynamite.

So if you get a chance, look it up. I believe that tickets are already on sale for next year. The organizers are incredible people. if you've listened to the podcast and you remember the interview with, Ron, he's on the board. Irene Glass, who I'm sure lots of you have heard of, organizes it as well.

 it's really, really worth going if you wanna take a deeper dive into your practice. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah, it's always good to know about great places to go and get extra information and,connections. And that's, that sounds like a really great one to go to. 

Tava Baird: Yeah, it was so much fun for me, because over the last year, every time I went.[00:03:00] 

To a conference or a retreat or a vending market. It was because dark flour had a booth there or I was teaching at it. And this time I just got to go be a student. It was my first time attending. I just got to go shopping in the vending area and just hang out with people.

And I wanna say thank you to all the podcast listeners who approached me at the conference and said to say hi to you, Jen, and told me that they listened and, gave wonderful feedback about the podcast. So thanks to all of you guys. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yes, thank you. And hi to all of you who have said hi through Tava to me.

I think it's really interesting actually that we each we're away this weekend and doing something that was more for ourselves and designed to, to kind of, you know, take things in. And [00:04:00] I actually, I was away with, my husband who was doing a continuing ed conference, and I was like, all right, this is gonna be my time.

I'm going to just sit and open without any distractions. Hear and learn and figure out and put all together what is going on with Omni Var, what is it? What is this whole thing supposed to look like? And I mean, I guess I knew what it was, but I didn't know how it was going to be presented to the public.

You know, how it was going to be a thing that was offered and how were the lessons gonna be offered and all of those details. And so I just sat and connected the first day. I actually went through and read through all of the notes that I'd had from all of the experiences and attunements and visions and things that I'd had, and I was, and then trying to compile them and make sense of like, these are all the guys that have come through.

These are the attunements that I've received. These are the symbols that I've received. You know, [00:05:00] just trying to put it all together because I realize that it's like the podcast will happen too, you know? It's like, we'll just, we'll do it. It'll happen. And then it's just disappears from my memory.

And so it was kind of amazing to go through and see all of the different aspects and all the different guides and all the different energies that had been coming in. And then I spent the second day, I was like, all right Michael,just share with me, about all of this. And ended up singing and dancing and making a stone circle.

 And kneeling inside it for an hour and a half and hearing more and more about it, and then again later. And it was amazing. So I'm so excited to be having a really clear understanding and sense of Omni Var and how it's going to be here to serve and support so many people. I feel like classes are gonna be starting before too long, so 

Tava Baird: yes.

Jennifer Taylor: That's 

Tava Baird: very exciting. Congratulations on all of that. That's [00:06:00] amazing. it's really incredible how quickly things come through and have been coming through. And I know at times Samuel will tell us, oh, there's a busy period coming up, and we al we always feel like we are already in the busy period, that this flow is just, is nonstop and grows.

 one of the things that was also really neat about the conference is, I donated, books to the silent auction there, and when I got them out of my car, I realized I hadn't signed them. So I went up into the common area to sit and sign books. And while I was up there, I had a variety of people who saw the book of Samuel sitting there that would come up to me and say, I read this.

And then they would start like pulling out jewelry. They now wore, they have like Samuel Lilith sil on it they're regularly calling in [00:07:00] that energy and it blows me away when I think of what a short period of time it's been since, you know, the word omni var came to you and it hasn't been that many years since the book of Sam came out.

You know what, like a year and a half, like maybe two years now? 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah, something like 

Tava Baird: that. Because it came out I think in a march, maybe two years ago, and you know how many people have the Oracle deck when I just released it in October and all of these things. And it's just when I sit down and I look at the months, I go, how did I go from no Lilith classes to eight of them in a.

Five month period. And, you know, it comes from the source, and it works. I never fail to be in awe of and grateful for how [00:08:00] quickly things come through. Now I just need to figure out how to organize my human life to match up with the pace of the other one, or, you know, how to continually bring balance there.

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah, I completely hear you. It's like the, the more things come through and the more excited I am about it, the more I'm going. Okay. so where are the hours for, for this? But I'm determined. I, I feel like I am, I'm really gonna keep moving in this direction of approaching it with ease. You know, I went into the weekend with a sense of, I'm going to just slow down instead of thinking I have so much to do and I need to do this as quickly as possible because I don't have much time.

Which would normally then sort of send me into overdrive, which is not the place to be in when you're trying to receive something. And instead I was just, it was like I super slowed down and just had this deep sense of peace of like. [00:09:00] Alright. It's just, it's coming, you know, and our, our friend Jennifer was like, so you're getting, I saw her, you know, part of the way through and she's like, oh, are you getting, a lot done?

And I was like, Nope, I have not, technically accomplished anything yet. And at that point it was like, I'm just reading through the notes and stuff. But then it's really interesting that sense of going the opposite direction of the direction you think, it's like these sort of pushing or getting more and more excited, putting more and more effort into it seem to shut everything down, but the complete backing off and just going, ah, you know, we'll see, I'm sure something will happen.

And then things just flowing through and so I'm like, alright, that's what I need to bring through. The manifesting it there's a deep desire and a strong commitment to following through, but I'm just going to relax and sit and let it come and let it flow as opposed [00:10:00] to trying to sort of tackle it and wrestle it to the ground and be like, all right, we're gonna get this done.

Tava Baird: I am so glad you hear you just said that because I really needed to hear that message. over the last two weeks, I had some health issues that kept me,running to the doctor or having great difficulty moving. I have my bad knee that I'm gonna go in and have surgery for this winter, but because I had been walking unbalanced for so long, I sprained my other leg and we didn't know what to do.

Like, do you exercise it? Do you rest it? I was in so much pain that I was literally using a walker around my house, just to like get from room to room. And so during those two weeks I got way [00:11:00] behind on everything from my master plan of when things would be executed. 

 yesterday I came back and I was like, I have one day to catch up on two weeks worth of stuff. And I overwhelmed myself.

And I was like, I think I'm gonna have a nervous breakdown. I'm just gonna have one. I'm just gonna fall apart. And Samuel was like, you know, fall.but even though you feel like you're gonna fall apart, you fight it. Right? And so, hearing you say that is reinforcement to a message that he gave me last night where he said, when a holy person walks a path, there are many branches that they could turn and go down at any point yet they constantly choose to stay on the path of their [00:12:00] work.

And that is something, I've always been bad at. I want to do all the things I have a duty to those who are now on the Lilith path with me. Those who are engaged now in a practice of self-discovery through Li Lithian magic and all of the other smaller things now I have to let them fall away.

I have to give them to somebody else. I have so many lovely people willing to help, help me and volunteer to do things, but I need to get to that mental place where I say, yeah, you take, take this and run with it. Turn it into something fantastic. or yes, let's collaborate because you know a lot more about this process than I do.

I don't need to figure it out from square one all by [00:13:00] myself because you're already proficient at it. Let me lean on your expertise and let's have what Sam always says, an equal exchange of energy. And so I'm trying really hard to let go to learn that every day. Everything that I do is a choice between, I could do these eight amusing things, or I can say.

Let me marshal the community and see who here is best to handle this need while I keep walking this path. which is where I'm supposed to go. I had somebody the other day say, what can I do to help? Like, I want to be part of this. And I'm like, well, you can't write for me. You can't really, you can't podcast for me.

You can't write down what Samuel's saying at two in the morning for me. Then I started thinking, you [00:14:00] know what, everything would flow better if my computer set up was better. And I know I'm very intimidated by electronics. Let me see who I can pull in, who knows how to make this whole thing flow. rather than me having to source everything I started putting out in the community and saying, there is a community, you know, there's a class coming up.

I want to make the class less expensive so more people can be involved. But in, in order to do that, there are supplies that are needed that I don't have, and that will raise the cost of the class if I have to purchase them. What do you all have? And just this outpouring of, oh, I've got some of those in my basement.

You can totally have that where people are donating supplies. And, you know, I'm working to keep things organized, but it's allowing me to, to [00:15:00] get more people discounted or free tickets to study things because I don't have to charge that additional fee. So, yeah, it's letting some of these things fall is like an opening up, but it's a hard opening up to do if you feel like you've held everything on this path, you know, you've been handling it all for a long time.

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah, and boy, I definitely acknowledge and resonate with that as well, andI love what he said about then fall because it in, it's like it instantly changes things and that it makes that also a choice. It's like I don't have to get to the point. And I think sometimes that happens for a lot of people physically as well as like, you know, when you're psychologically and emotionally and mentally just overdoing everything, then you hit a point for a lot of people, they [00:16:00] physically break down and their bodies just stop, from an injury, an illness, something that goes, you are not listening.

 now I'm gonna make you listen because it's like a last ditch. You know, hail Mary kind of pass. We've gotta knock you out entirely. And that's how so many people learn their kind of lessons is, is to go, oh my gosh, I didn't realize like, I have to receive help. I have to let myself be, cared for, or whatever the various lessons are that are in that forest.

 sometimes I think for me, in the past it was when there was so much to carry all at once, all the time. And it was like, I'm the only person who can do absolutely all of this stuff, which is usually not true. Like you said,people can't write for you or channel for you or do these things, but there's a lot of other aspects that someone else could do.

 I would almost fantasize about like, you know, well if I just ended up in the hospital and I didn't want [00:17:00] that to happen 'cause I didn't wanna put that on other people. But there was this sense of, I might just completely collapse from all of this.

And a sense of relief in that. And so it's like the idea that you don't have to get to that point to stop, at any point. you can choose to just fall and say, you know what? I'm just letting it all go. I'm not gonna make my body stop me. You know? I'm not gonna wait until there's some sort of complete breakdown that's gonna have its own set of things to have to clean up and deal with.

I could just stop and fall. I could just choose to say, this is all I can carry. I can't carry it anymore. I'm dropping it all, and I'm falling into the arms of all of those who love me, and the ancestors and all the divine guides that are probably working hard to say, come on. You know, like too much.

 you've gotta get centered. You've gotta get clear and I like the idea of [00:18:00] the falling too, of that trust fall kind of thing, you know? Yes. It's like they're standing back there going, we are here. If you stop doing all the things you're doing that are holding you separate from your divinity and separate from this ease and this support, everything's gonna work.

So just fall into us to where it's not like falling into a chasm. It's falling into the arms of a flow and an ease that has been there. We just tend to. Not let ourselves access it because we're so determined, we have to just keep willing ourselves through it and forcing ourselves through it instead of relaxing into the ease.

Tava Baird: Exactly. There is a hard act. The end of the, the sequence of the deck of rebellion has, um, picture of a demon standing on top of a cliff. And the words on the card are to [00:19:00] fall in truth is to be blessed. that's something that Samuel says a lot to me, that falling not only do you go back into the arms of the ancestors, but that sometimes that's how you discover where your energetic wings are, is to allow yourself the plummet from the heights you have climbed and see what happens.

This isn't a very dramatic example, but I had, one happen this morning. There was a social situation, where I was supposed to get together with two people later this week. And the two people don't know each other very well. And we originally had one set of plans, and then one person on the side is like, well, I wish we could alter it this way.

And I didn't know how to gracefully do that without, the other person might feeling excluded. And I worried about it all week. Like, I have to email everybody. [00:20:00] I automatically put myself in the position of saying I'm gonna have to be the person who reminds everybody that we're going, I'm gonna have to make sure nobody's feelings are hurt so that everybody is happy.

I'm gonna have to smooth over the edges and rearrange this in a delicate way. And I, just don't have the spoons for that right now. And so I put it off and I put it off. And normally I would have texted 48 hours before and made all of this happen and made sure all the children in the playpen were playing nice with each other, right?

Because that's what I do. And I didn't wanna do it. I didn't have the energy, so I just sort of let it go and I let it go. And I was making myself uncomfortable by letting it go. By letting it fall, right? Because I'm not used to doing that. So I get up this morning and I said, I [00:21:00] absolutely have to email them this morning.

We are now less than 24 hours from when we are supposed to make this sojourn. Obviously nobody is communicating unless I do the communication. So I sat down to figure out how I was going to navigate this so that everyone would feel included and seen and would still be happy with the plans. And when I opened up, there was already a conversation going on between the other two people and they had worked it out.

And all I had to say was, yay, see you then. And I sat there like, I let it fall. It made me feel irresponsible. It made me feel like I was procrastinating. It made me feel uncomfortable. It was a different thing to do when I removed myself from the role of I have to be the person who is holding this social engagement together.

They figured it out and I'm [00:22:00] just allowed to stretch my wings out. Plummet through the clouds for a while and it's nice. It's like going to that conference, going down and seeing all the vendors there and you know, I love to work at, at Booth, I love having my tent and arranging all of my items and doing readings for people and talking to them and I, I love doing that, but it is work, it's hacking and setting up and then you're physically very busy and socially engaged.

 and channeling for hours and hours and hours. It's tiring. And I've forgotten the simple pleasure of going to a metaphysical market and just getting to browse where it was all put together for me to enjoy. And I had so much fun just wandering around and saying, I think I'll get some of that incense and I think I'll chat with this artist [00:23:00] without having to constantly like scan to make sure everybody is being helped and, worrying about did I bring enough bags and that sort of thing.

So, 

Jennifer Taylor: yeah. You know, and I really like what you were saying about how, what can happen when we let something fall and how it also allows the things that are falling to find their wings and to find their place. You know, it's like by you deciding that you were not going to carry the weight of the three of you.

It allowed them to then find their wings and come together and do their work in a way that wouldn't have happened, if you had been doing all of it to hold everybody up. And that's such a common examplefor of the type of stuff that happens in my life with, lots of different interactions and things that are really important to me.

And so I feel like it's really important that I maintain, and I hold all this for [00:24:00] everybody, but the weight of it is just enormous. And I realize that I can't,carry this for everybody and I don't think that it's right in its balance to do it. And so many times I've been challenging myself to do the same thing.

To go, alright, I know I'm getting like this mayday kind of text, but I have a feeling that you know, but maybe this can just wait and let's see what happens. And what I started learning was that I would get this, I need your attention right now, I have to have it, whatever. And then I would just, just wait an hour and by the time I would go back to it, there would be something of like, oh, nevermind, I got it worked out.

Or, you know, I figured this out and the longer I let things fall and just let it be. The morethe individual was going, I think I can do, was starting to [00:25:00] brainstorm and finding their way on their own or finding other resources. And it's been really interesting because by doing what felt like, just kind of being neglectful of this person who's just so needy, and looking to me to solve all of their problems by not doing that, not meeting the expectation, which feels terrible for a long time.

Yes. You know, that like, oh my gosh, I'm letting this go. You know, and then all the stories that you start telling yourself in your head about what you're like and what's happening because of you and all this stuff. When I let go of that, all of a sudden that person now has a much wider net of resources.

Yes. And so rather than coming to me for absolutely everything, there's this whole network of, people that they can go to and access. And so if I'm not [00:26:00] available, then it's not so much of an emergency either because they have now reached out because they felt like they had to reach out.

And now things are much more balanced and they're feeling better about themselves. And so it's really interesting how the things that seem like, the worst things to do to sometimes actually help allow them to find their wings and allow them to create new networks you know?

And so I think that's a really interesting aspect of that, letting things fall too. 

Tava Baird: Absolutely. And the other thing that I've learned is a lot of times I read urgency or emergency into a contact that isn't really there. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yes. 

Tava Baird: Like I will have people that will write me and, they're writing me online, I can't see what situation they're in.

And I will have people who will text me at, you know, 10 30 at night or whatever, and say, please, you have to help me. [00:27:00] There's something in my house. And that's what they write, 

Jennifer Taylor: right? 

Tava Baird: So I go, it's 10 30 at night. Do we have like an active coter guy situation happening? Like, is the house on fire or am I just the first person in their contacts right now and their house is actively being broken into by someone, you know?

So then I immediately write back like, are you safe? Is, you know, do I need to call someone? And then they're like, no, no, I'd just like to talk to you sometime in the next week. But, when I get a, please help me, there's something in my house. Oh yeah. I'm like, are you physically all right right now?

And what it might be sometimes is they hit a breaking point in their patients or how they felt safe and they just needed to tell somebody. But they're totally fine if we don't actually sit down and talk for a week. You know? [00:28:00] But, and, and then I look back and I go, okay, I can see where I would've confused that for an emergency.

But sometimes we all write differently and use different toneage, especially if you're getting, a message through social media or a text message or even an email. Sometimes things look huge and, and you are thinking they're huge. When the person goes, oh no, I've been dealing with this for two years.

I would just really like to get on your schedule. And you're like, oh, okay. Alright, that's fine. Let me take some deep breaths now. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. And I, it's funny from the, the individual, and by the way, if you're thinking you're the individual and you're listening to this, you are a hundred percent not like, I encourage you.

Yeah. Don't worry about it. There's no chance this person's ever going to listen to this podcast, but. Yeah, that would, that would happen. Yeah. I would get these things, sound, these things that sounded like emergencies. And then I'm like, did you just start having these? [00:29:00] You're Oh, oh no. I mean, I, I mean, I think I've been having it for months.

I'm like, what? And it's interesting too, I think that reading emergency into stuff, or reading this level of urgency into things, I think happens in lots of ways. I mean, it seems very, very, likely that anybody would read into something like, there's something in my house, please help me as, an urgent sort of situation where, but sometimes like just a request for something of, oh, I really, wanna take this class,

When are you offering it again, for me, tends to all of a sudden feel like, oh my gosh, I need a class on the books, like in 30 minutesit really should have already been there, or they wouldn't have had to ask. And you know, I am looking, trying to figure out how can I get a class started, like practically immediately.

And I'll go through this whole thing and then I'll get back to them and say, and they're like, oh, I meant like, you know, sometime, I'm busy until like the fall, [00:30:00] so I mean, maybe sometime between them and like next spring. And I'm going, oh my gosh, I just finished doing all this stuff thinking like.

It's immediate. And it's amazing how many times that happens. You know, somebody will say, Hey, I want to do this, take this class, have this offering, or whatever, and I instantly go into overdrive going, I need to meet this need immediately. And then realize that that wasn't even the context of the need, like half the time it's like, oh, well I don't know, maybe several months from now, or I'm probably not gonna actually have the finances for that until whatever.

But I just, wanted to let you know that at the time. And so I realize how many things in other contexts are probably not urgent or even meant to be taken as urgent, but that I take it as it, and it probably all has to do with that feeling of needing to take care of everything for everybody and having it done immediately.

And, yeah, so all the, [00:31:00] I'm looking forward to leaning further and further into this, just doing things with ease and allowing more and kind of doing less. But what I do then is a thousand times more efficient. So, 

Tava Baird: right. 

Jennifer Taylor: You, you don't need the same amount of time. Yeah, 

Tava Baird: it feels like the opposite. And, and also the more tighter and more tense we get, the less we are able to process and let flow through.

 when you were talking about that need to be the caretaker, I had someone contact me for a bone reading and they said, I have been a primary caretaker for an elderly person in my family, in my home for the last several years. And what they really needed was a space in a, you know, in a program that, you know, in a retirement home that is designed to support this.

And [00:32:00] we've just gotten notice that that space might finally be available in a few months. And this person reached out and said, I don't know what I'm going to do. I have been a caretaker for so long that I need to figure out when this happens. It's not only a transition for this person and it's a wonderful transition.

They are going to get more advanced care that they need. Like this is a good thing, but there's suddenly going to be this hole. Where I was putting all my energy and now there's a million possibilities and I'm not sure what I should focus on when that day comes. And this was a really interesting request for a bone reading.

Jennifer Taylor: I 

Tava Baird: love 

Jennifer Taylor: that. 

Tava Baird: So I did the reading, and the reading came back and it was so interesting to me [00:33:00] because what the bone said was, be cautious. You don't have an idea of what you will do after this. But lots of other people will. other people in your family might be, oh, you've got so much time now you're gonna cook three homemade meals a day and the house is gonna be spotless because you don't have this other responsibility.

Or you're gonna have a bunch of friends who say, oh, I know you've got a lot more time now, would you like to come volunteer at X? And or, oh, do you wanna come be a chaperone on this field trip with 20 kids on it? And you're so used to being caretaker that you immediately say yes.

And the next thing you know you are doing more caretaking than you were in the previous situation. And that it's, it's important to have these discussions with people [00:34:00] around you where you say. Change is coming. There is suddenly gonna be more room in our house. There's gonna be a financial shift, there's going to be a scheduling shift.

What are you picturing? This is going to be like, you know, maybe, maybe that room or that person was living. One person in the house thinks they're gonna make it into an office, but the other person wants an art studio and they don't discuss it. And then somebody goes in and just starts doing things. You know, people don't like change.

And when someone in your family is moving into a new phase of their life, that causes everybody to be unsettled, right? That there's all of this change. And a lot of times we don't give ourselves time, process what happened during that last period. Any [00:35:00] grief that comes along with, you know, someone's getting older.

Like maybe you have a student going off to college and now when they go to college, there's all this space and silence in your house and you want to make over their playroom into the studio you've always wanted, but you feel like you need to rush in there. And you also don't wanna be respectful to the me disrespectful to the memory of their childhood.

And so you end up sort of walking this edge between what could be and what was when what you really need is time to say, I'm so excited that my child brought into a good school, that they're going out on their own, that they're making friends, that they're going to have a successful, fulfilling life.

That they're gonna potentially meet someone who's gonna be a partner for them and follow their dreams. But I also need time to [00:36:00] grieve the fact that childhood is over. And if I have identified as so-and-so's mom or dad for so long, what does it mean now that they are so big that they don't need me in the same way?

What kind of new relationship will we form? And, and there is a grieving period for that, even if the change is positive from the outside. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. I absolutely love that the person thought to have a bone reading for something like this. I think it's so wise to recognize there are gonna be all these choices and all of these opportunities and all of these different things and I don't know which way to go.

And thinking about that ahead of time and preparing, you know, for that, eventuality and having the space then. to choose consciously and be cautious, makes so much sense. [00:37:00] And that I know even just when we talk about energetically, like a smoke cleansing a room or something like that, I'd always been taught that it was really important to, as soon as you're cleansing that to bring, to relight the energy, you know, have a go around with a candle or do something to fill that space again, because it was like, you know, energy loves a void 

I can't remember what the saying was that somebody would say, but basically like any sort of energetic opening, any sort of empty space is going to be filled. it's gonna get filled with something. So, you clear the room out and anything, you want to then consciously choose what you're filling that space with because otherwise it's gonna get filled one way or another.

And so it's like, is it getting filled by default where there's other sorts of energies that are like, Hey, we needed a space to camp out and spread out. And, you know, now we have a whole different set of thought forms and energies in there that, that are maybe not maybe worse than the ones we were [00:38:00] trying to clear out and, and give ourselves some space from.

And so it's, it's interesting. It's really the same kind of concept of. You know, there are all these, energies that are just waiting to go, Hey, alright, I'mmore than happy to come in and take up residence. They're more than happy. They're numerous people.

 There are more than enough people who are going to want to come in and go, oh yeah, I've got uses for your time. I'll take care of that. But choosing what you're filling that space with and doing it consciously versus by default is a really a wise thing.

Tava Baird: Yeah. I thought this person was brilliant. I was like, oh, I wish I'd done that when I retired. and the other thing that it made me think about when I thought, oh, I wish I'd done that when I retired. Is that I realized that I read phones for people every day in my business. you know, not to plug my own business, but hit up etsy.com guys, dark [00:39:00] flower books.

I do do bone readings, but that when I go to markets, I am doing deck of rebellion polls. And when I teach classes, I'm helping people to read bones or to read cards or, you know, at the Underworld event that is going on at Greenhill Cemetery, we're going to be doing, uh, umci, which is reading eggs.

It's a Greek form of divination where you read eggs, for our spring equinox, uh, fundraiser for the cemetery. And I, I mean, I'm reading all the time and I realized I haven't done a reading for myself in months if maybe a year. And I started realizing when you were leaving me the Marco, about what you were getting done in the hotel at Omni Vara.

I was so thrilled for you, but I realized I was also kind of [00:40:00] jealous.you made yourself like a little retreat there and let everything flow. And I was like, I think I need a retreat. I think I need to like, sit down with all of my notes and all of my half finished project and, and spend some time in meditation and, tell people, if you are on fire, please text this word at the beginning of your text if you are not on fire.

I will speak with you today. And, Samuel was talking to you about Omni Var and he said something about that the journey was as important as the arrival, pilgrimage that isn't to place someone else constructed in a holy land to worship, but a pilgrimage to your own holy [00:41:00] place.

And that's what I feel like you did with Omni Var. And I realize, you know, this Lilith path is growing so quickly that I need to sit down and go deeper and, and spend time basically in a room with Sam Ael and just talk to him. For a few days. Right. so I was wondering if I might make a request. 

Jennifer Taylor: Of course, 

Tava Baird: you haven't sung yet this podcast.

 I realize 

Jennifer Taylor: that 

Tava Baird: I would love it. You wouldn't mind. And I imagine there, I know there are other people listening to this podcast who are at times in their life where one cycle is ending and another is beginning Jennifer Gerland. would you mind seeing if you could bring through a song about pilgrimage or a journey to the cells so that later on I [00:42:00] might sit and do a reading to it for myself or some automatic writing and use it to help bring semi through as I contemplate my role as a guide and that other people listening could not only listen to, you know, in their car or whatever today, but maybe it'll that energy of what would it look like if I let some of my responsibilities fall for a short time and took a pilgrimage to myself?

Jennifer Taylor: So that is, that's really beautiful and I love that as a, as a prompt for this for sure. And it's really, interesting to me where you ended up at the end for the last maybe 15 minutes or so relatively early on in our talking about falling and just fall, I kept getting this very clear like [00:43:00] image and message 

 it's almost like something came straight through my spine from the back and straight through the lineup of me and was saying falling that the song that I was meant I needed to bring through was falling and the energy of falling and letting yourself fall.

And so when you first started talking, I was like, oh no, I know I'm supposed to bring through falling and that sounds really good. But it was really interesting because the longer you talk, the place you ended up was letting people re know that they can let go of these things. And what would it feel like if I let go of all this stuff?

So I feel like the first part of the pilgrimage the place that we ended in, I feel like the first place that we're supposed to start is with the falling. if we can bring through the energy of [00:44:00] falling and what that can look like and what that can bring in, then that pilgrimage is gonna be a very different thing.

 It's going to have a level of grace and ease in it that wouldn't have been there before if we had just set out with sheer determination as opposed to falling and, and having, the wings come out and support us? Have that be what leads us and gives us our direction.

Tava Baird: I think that's dead on. And it also reminds me of, we did a podcast, I don't remember how many months ago, but we did podcast on Fallen Angels and Samuel Mayel was talking about the idea of a fallen angel and how his perception is very different from what you usually hear. And he talked about this idea.

 well, he didn't say rocket ship, but this is the best analogy I can think of. When you boost a rocket ship [00:45:00] into space, one of the things that helps to propel it forward is letting parts of it fall away, right? That you get this equal energy where if some things want to move forward, certain things have to fall away to help, to create that space.

And Samuel talked about that. it was time for collective consciousness to move into a new space, but for that to happen, there needed to be the opposite energy of certain angels, allowing their energy to fall so that Michael could cut the bonds on the gate and allow expansion intonew area.

And that's this sort of same thing. If you wanna go forward, you have to let something fall back and, and allow that opposite [00:46:00] force to propel you forward in flight. I think that's a, a really neat tie in too, I talked about with these two people who didn't know each other very well and I thought I was gonna have to bridge the gap, they now have moved forward in their relationship because they've started speaking directly to each other.

They've moved forward into a new space, into new relationship, into an area of growth because I provided space for that. My folic. 

Jennifer Taylor: I I love that. it reminds me too, when I think about it, the going backwards and doing the work to go forwards in the time. 'cause I've known for at least a month that that was what I was going to be spending the time at this, weekend away focusing on.

I'm gonna make this into an Omni VAR retreat. I'm going to,set that time aside to allow in and [00:47:00] open up for things. And I've really realized in the week or two ahead of time, I've done all of this going back and. Working on things and clearing things away. And I think that's a lot of what allowed the,stepping in with ease and receiving was the going back.

And I actually had felt physically in my energy field, the behind me as needing to get worked on. And actually my energy body stepped back into that and looked around and felt around and was doing a lot of work quite literally behind me in order to then just flow forward. So that's really interesting.

Tava Baird: We often don't look at what is behind. Here's case in point, I the other day bought a new sewing machine 'cause I'm working on a tent, new tent cover for the Ren fairs and stuff. And my husband said, I thought you had a sewing machine. And I said, no, no. [00:48:00] I donated that to the school years ago. I don't have a sewing machine.

So just now I go down into the basement and what do I find a sewing machine. Now the sewing machine has been down there for many years. It's covered in dust. It was kind of on its last legs, but perhaps I could have upgraded it and oil did and restored it. And you know it, in, in truth, a new sewing machine is, is I'm gonna be putting it through its paces.

But I never bothered to go down to the basement and look at the things that I had left behind. And, and I went down there and I was like, why are there so many clothes in boxes down here? And I'm starting to think, oh, I don't wanna open those because they're probably full of sweaters and I just bought sweaters.

You know, like if we don't ever go back, we don't even know a lot of times what's in our environment and those things that are behind us we are very much like sharks a lot, I think, [00:49:00] where we think we constantly have to move forward to survive. But that going back like you spoke of, is so important.

 I have a pop named Matilda, who is my grounding puppet, and I carry her to lots of events and she goes to ritual with me and she has a skirt that's all made out of corn fabric. And there are things tied into the skirts. Sometimes people give me things and I add adornments to her, but I had some jewelry that was from people who I no longer have relationships with.

And in some cases I'm still in a little bit of a period of mourning for those relationships. And what I decided to do with those items was tie them on the back of her skirt. And when I get things from that represent new areas where I'm going, [00:50:00] those go into the front of her skirt. And so this little pop that is a representation my soul's journey,she still carries a lot with her, but some is behind and still processing and not erased, and some is in the front out for the world to see.

Jennifer Taylor: Oh, that's beautiful. I really like that. Well, I know it is time I guess to sing. So 

Tava Baird: sing. It's so 

Jennifer Taylor: funny 'cause I, again, I'm like, I'll just say one more thing. I'm like, no, I just need to sing. Then we'll see what happens. This 

Tava Baird: is, this is fantastic and I really appreciate you taking requests. I hope you don't feel too much like, you know, um, basic case, I'm top 40, you know, or people call it and make requests.

Jennifer Taylor: No, I am, I am always happy to have requests and I think it was really interesting that it ended up lining up with what I was, being told to bring through. So, and who knows, maybe after that there will [00:51:00] be one for pilgrimage. 

Tava Baird: That'll be great. 

Jennifer Taylor: So let's see. [00:52:00] Oh,

[00:53:00] [00:54:00] [00:55:00] [00:56:00] [00:57:00] oh.

Tava Baird: Thank you. Oh boy. Did I need that? 

Jennifer Taylor: You are very welcome. It felt really good. 

Tava Baird: It was [00:58:00] Oh, like, like sighing, like just getting air into your lungs after holding your breath for too long. Isn't it funny how we spend so much of our lives holding our breath, waiting for what's to come instead of breathing into what is here now?

Jennifer Taylor: Yes. And so many times the, you know, holding our breath for what's coming doesn't actually come. You know, the thing that we were bracing for doesn't usually come or not in the way that we expect it to. And then it's like, wow, that is an especially large waste of energy, you know? Yes. And, and stopping of allowing in the life force and the breath that would help to guide us through all of that.

And instead we hold our breath. 

Tava Baird: Yeah. Yeah. I have some [00:59:00] words from Samuel that came through with that song. 

Jennifer Taylor: Wonderful. 

Tava Baird: So I thought you might like to hear. So I wrote at the top of the page Falling and he says It is time to set some things down. Um, Shaah, why do you not think yourself worthy of help when were you taught?

You must move lest you be judged. Your existence is enough. Your unique, holy and gentle existence. I do not move always. Often I merge with the energies around me. My Kindred or the quality of the Sky Song, those whose attentions grant me the title of Beloved Lilith. [01:00:00] It is hard for her to rest. For once long ago she was told he had a singular purpose to create, to bring others into being, but she rejected that singular role.

And while she now dances and at times I help her to rest, she feels that imperative still. So she rebels. She rebels by saying, I am enough. I'm enough. I am enough. It is a hard fight. You too are enough. Take a day, a morning, an hour to accomplish nothing. The [01:01:00] world will still be there when you return, and you may find that it is now in a state much more worthy of discovery.

Jennifer Taylor: Beautiful. 

Tava Baird: I've found that one interesting because he does not talk about his relationship with Lilith very much. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. 

Tava Baird: You know, he talks about her, but he doesn't often reveal a lot about how they actually intersect. And so if Lilith is a divine being and a powerhouse of self-worth, and he still struggles because someone once told her, this is your job.

You know, go forth and multiply. That's all you get. And she decided, no, that's not all I get. It's good to know [01:02:00] that we shouldn't blame ourselves when we struggle in the same way that we don't have to stay in our assigned roles, even if we are the one who assigned them to ourself.

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah, absolutely. it really struck me the idea that Lilith is still healing things. Yeah. the goddess of, this kind of fiery strength and protection and, knowing her worth. it's funny, I just realized I called her a goddess, but it's really just another way of honoring her and the position that she holds.

 she teaches us about worth and how fiercely we are loved and how we are enough, and the idea that she still has her times of struggling It definitely gives us a lot of permission to go Okay. It, it's not necessarily a one and done thing, you know?

Yeah. It's not like I've, I've healed that, that's taken care [01:03:00] of it, for good, because I think so much in our healing processes, we move forward and we're like, I'm healing things. I'm releasing things. I'm doing so well. And then it seems like something kind of comes outta nowhere and, out of the, past and out of the old shame and lack of worth and comes up and it's like, wait a minute, where did this come from?

 I know for myself, I tend to first sort of beat myself up for having,not dealt with it properly before, or not having really done the work or how am I still having this issue. But it's a whole new level of permission to not have completely healed everything, to not have completely taken care of every issue that we have to still not have completely, taken in every aspect of these messages and embodied them when she's still working on that.

she's still working through these things [01:04:00] and. when I think about it, that's really another wonderful model of the perfectly imperfect kind of thing. You know, like she's always right. Showing let your imperfections fly is like one of your cards, you know, the deck of rebellion cards.

And, but I tend to think Lilith as she doesn't have imperfections. Right. which is really kind of silly, but when you hear Sam all talking about her that way, it's just a kind of another way of showing and modeling what she's asking us to do, which is, go out there and teach and support others and, bring in healing and teach others to find their worth.

And it's okay that, we all still struggle with that, you know, she does too. And look at what she brings through. 

Tava Baird: it's something I guess I had never, like you said, really aligned in my head. We have this idea that these energetic beings are [01:05:00] already perfect, and then we place ourselves below them.

But Samuel says that our ancestors, and even the angels themselves, they're not stagnant. They evolve and that. They're divine beings, but we are divine beings too. So it follows sort of from a mathematical principle that if we are just as divine as they are and we struggle with things, then they, who can remember a lot of their previous incarnations are still processing and struggling and moving forward too.

 I always remember there's a thing where people say you shouldn't be a director if you've never been an actor. Because if you haven't had the experience of being an actor, how do you know what they're going through? And so it follows that 

Jennifer Taylor: if Lili 

Tava Baird: is about self-worth, well Lili [01:06:00] has to know what it's like to not have self-worth to, to doubt.

She has to have been there and she still is there in certain aspects that her energy and manifestation is not some sort of pure, perfect thing. she tells us that, that, you know, purity is not what we are after. She's not pure. that doesn't make us less holy. And I also find it interesting, I think especially with angels, we think of them as perfect beings.

But if you dive into, the Bible and other sacred texts, angels are bonkers in some of these things. They get angry, they get jealous, they, do things they're not supposed to do. They rebel. if we are to think about the story of the Nephilim, they came down and human women for their wives [01:07:00] and passed on forbidden knowledge.

They have dimension and depth and imperfection. And so I think one of the things I find fascinating about him talking about this is Samuel saying I rest. And that even in his rested state, people call him Beloved, you know, that Lilith calls him Beloved. And even in her state of imperfection, he still beloveds him.

And that's part of what makes them non-ST stagnant entities. They grow, they move, they emerge. it's definitely a different, state. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. back to the very first part of what he was saying about that you don't have to be moving and doing in order to be worthy and.

That part of the being [01:08:00] able to rest is to know that you are worthy of resting. And I think that's a big aspect too of a lot of the resistance I think we as humans tend to have towards rest is the idea of I can rest when I have gotten this thing done but not a, I can rest because I am worthy of rest and just as worthy of care as all of those that I provide care to, and therefore I'm going to prioritize myself in this moment.

 it seems like rest is usually the thing that happens at the end of an exhausting kind of thing, you know? Right. But not something that's consciously chosen as an act of self-care and an act of honoring your worth and value. 

Tava Baird: This question that he posed, why do you not think [01:09:00] yourself worthy of help?

 at what point, at what age, from what sources did this idea get put in my head that I am troubling people if I invite them to contribute? You know, I was up in, Milton, Pennsylvania at the Vampire Market a couple weekends ago. shout out to Milton, Pennsylvania.

I'll see you in July for the first three Lilith classes. but I had someone come up to me who I had gifted them a copy of the book of Sam and they read it all in one night. She came to me the next day and she said, I want to be a part of making this grow.

And I've never had somebody phrase it like that before. Instead, I thought it was my job to make this grow. And if I ask anybody [01:10:00] else, I am an imposition on their time that they could be using for other things. And what this person was telling me was. I want to be a part of this. I want to align at least part of my holy work here in this incarnation with what you are doing.

Give me something to do. And if I didn't give them something to do, I was robbing them of something they wanted that's a completely different viewpoint from, oh, I don't wanna be a bother to you. Right? This is someone who says, this spoke to me. I want to put the force of my divinity to get this to more people who need it.

Tell me what to do. our dear friend Jennifer Gerland, [01:11:00] said something similar to me the other day about that with, you know, what can you give away? And my first feeling is I don't wanna trouble anybody. Jennifer said like, can you imagine if you find something that speaks to you and you want to help it grow?

And the person goes, nah. Like, what's the point of me doing what I'm doing then? Right. she's like, your, your work is getting this message to a wider audience so Samuel can talk to who Samuel wants to talk to.

 right now you are the telephone cord. So if you can expand this network where other people can be part of the telephone cord essentially, then that, that gets these lessons on self-worth and divinity and community and empathy out where they are needed. And, but I, I was like, I don't know how to [01:12:00] do that.

Like, I don't know what jobs to give people. I'm not used to asking for help. So it's a completely different perspective on what do you do when the Divine reaches out and says, here, pass this message on. And then the people you pass it to turn around and say, okay, now I want to not just pass the book onto somebody.

 I want to host you coming here. I want to help you grow this, but you've just never thought that way before. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah, one of it, it really, it draws me to something that, we were talking to Jennifer about this past week of people asking you to teach something or asking, for you to bring through another aspect of something before you feel ready to do [01:13:00] it.

And that, you know, it's, it's said all the time in the reiki world that, you know, when someone asks, when people start asking you as a practitioner to start teaching, then it's time for you to teach. It's like the reiki is flowing. the guidance within the reiki energy is saying, it's time, it's time to start sharing this.

And by having people showing up and asking for you to share that, and that it's almost always well before you feel you're ready. It's like, I know I can do that, butI'm not at the level that so and so is at. I haven't done it this long. I need more experience.

I need more time. And the reality is that there's always gonna be experience you haven't had yet. There's always going to be more information that you haven't learned yet, but wherever you are right then is where you will attract students that are. In that same vein that are ready to hear the [01:14:00] information you have now from the stage that you're in now and the students you have five years from now will be very different students because they'll be ready to hear what you have then.

But that listening for people asking you to bring forward your gifts that you don't feel like you're quite ready for is part of how we know. it seems to me to be a little bit of the same thing of when you know it's time for you now to start handing over some pieces of the things and letting other carry it and move it forward, that at the time that it's right to do that, people are starting to ask and say, I want to be of help, you know, I can do this.

 I was hearing you say, how do I know? How do I know what to do? How do I know what to give? And it struck me as very much the same process of putting that question out there to the universe and saying, okay, I want to continue on this path that I know is my path [01:15:00] as you know, as clearly and as directly as possible.

And I'm asking you to show me those who are ready to take on what parts and the people that are perfectly aligned with it. it seems like that's been happening a lot in the last few weeks from what you've been sharing Yeah.

people are showing up saying, these are my skills and talents. This is what I see that I can do for you. And because you are so profoundly generous, it is an equal exchange of energy for me to give back because of the amount that you've given. And that maybe rather than you trying to decide what can I delegate, you just look around at the people that are suddenly just appearing and saying, these are my skills and gifts.

 I would imagine that the people that are saying, I have these gifts and skills and this is exactly what I can do, they're clearly the right people to take [01:16:00] on certain aspects. And maybe actually even asking the person, what are your skills? Like, if somebody's like, I don't know what to do, I just know I wanna be of help.

Maybe asking them, what do you, what are your passions? And maybe that can be a way of tapping into, you know, something else. Something along that line is likely to. Yeah. You know, resonate with something that you are doing and you're like, oh, I, that's exactly what I needed.

 You know, and moving forward the mission by not having to spend so much time doing things that are physically exhausting and then having to rest forcibly because I had to, I did too much physically.

Like it may be be a matter of some people can help you through, physical kinds of tasks like that 

Tava Baird: right there. A couple of things popped into my head as you were speaking. I think you have incredible points. one of them is an [01:17:00] opportunity has come up lately, with some friends where they want to get the word out there about their, company that they're building where they do audio and visual and they were like, let's film some of your Lilith classes and make them so that people are.

Able to access that online. And my first instinct was, you know, Lilith is so much about community and we have this really sweet little community that's within driving distance. But then Jennifer Gerland came out and said, what if there is someone in Texas right now who needs to hear exactly what Sam is saying in Virginia?

And because sort of like, I'm not thinking wide enough they're not getting the thing that I'm supposed to deliver. so last night I reached out and said, let's start talking about some of this, putting some of these things online getting things out to a wider audience so that we can, all rise together.

Like if you are [01:18:00] starting a new company or a new venture and I am,working on mine, what can we do that's mutually beneficial to carry us both long? And, you know, the, the platforms that I've been able to find my way on onto, because other people gave me chances, how can I then use them to co-teach with you so that you have a bigger platform or, bring you on the podcast so you have a bigger platform or talk about you at a conference or something.

 when I was at a Sacred Space conference, there was a q and a, that was just wonderful. And I think like four of the five people on the panel were authors. And I'd had something rattling around in my head I was lucky enough that I got called on to ask a question and I said, my practice is so different now than it was three years ago.

But I was writing books three years ago. You know, I wrote Spiral Pathways, [01:19:00] witchcraft. And now I look back at the things that I'm doing now versus the, the path that I was on for the first, you know, 30 years of when I was mentoring and what I'm doing now. The, the book does not reflect what I'm doing now, but people think it does because I have the book from three years ago and I said, do you ever go back and take some of your writings out of circulation?

'cause while there, there might be valuable to some people, they don't reflect where you are now. And I was really curious about that, you know? 'cause I have a workbook with my first 25 or 26 basically Wiccan mentoring lessons in it. And if you look at the work I'm doing now, it's doesn't really look within at all.

Jennifer Taylor: Right? 

Tava Baird: So, I said, when you're constantly moving and evolving and discovering who you [01:20:00] are spiritually and who you are as a person, and the times change, what do you do with those writings? And they all said, I loved it. They all said, no, no, no, you don't take them out of circulation because none of us are perfect and none of us had all the answers in our first book.

What you do is in. You make a little adjustment at the front of those publications that says, content in this book is reflective of where I was earlier on my path. I hope you find it valuable, useful. Please take it in that context. You know? And they said on top of that, what you are doing is knowing them that it's okay to evolve.

That it's okay to even go back and say, I thought this was exactly right. But now times have changed and I have progressed and I have learned, and this may not be my views, we actually do that on our [01:21:00] podcast here in the very beginning. There's a disclaimer that says, our views are our views reflective of where our path is right now.

And I had never thought about doing that with book. And so that's something that I wanna do. It's so strange. People come up to me all the time and they talk about Book of Samuel Mail. 'cause they just read it. And I have to say to them, oh honey, so much has happened since then. Here's a podcast link for you.

You know, and here are Lilith classes and here is, you know, an Oracle deck that is further along the path. So I found that interesting. And then the third thing I wanted to bring up is from the school of business at the University of Virginia. I remember taking a business class there and they were talking about Ben and Jerry's.

Ben and Jerry's is, ice cream is a great thing to talk about, you know? But they talked about [01:22:00] this tipping point. You know, you had Ben and Jerry two friends who started an ice cream company and wanted to make wholesome. Well as wholesome as at ice cream can be, But they wanted to use local ingredients and they wanted to give back to charity.

And they had this little company that caught on where suddenly supermarkets across America wanted to stop Ben and Jerry's. Well, that's a wonderful problem to have that you have lots of people who want what it is that you do. They talked about problem there was that they really felt that their little company was so authentic.

They knew all of the employees, they knew all of the distributors. They knew exactly what was happening. They could see every corner and aspect of it all the time. And to go into [01:23:00] supermarkets, even in part of the country, meant there were going to be supply chain things they couldn't see, they wouldn't know the people anymore.

And this was ultimately over time, one of the things that ended up dividing Ben and Jerry and having them go their separate ways was their comfort level with how big the company had become. 'cause it was a labor of loves and they loved the community that it brought and the community was going to drastically change.

And I've never forgotten that. And first off, I never thought I would have more people reaching out to me for this information that I could possibly process as one person. But you do stand on that edge where you go, if I teach even people that I love, [01:24:00] four or five people to, maybe they are handling certain aspects of classes or they're traveling to different areas or they're editing content or what have you.

I can't see it all. And it, and that has a certain level of it's nerve wracking. 'cause you're so used to knowing exactly what happens everywhere. So there is this pull into directions, you know, is I want to get people who need this information that. The information they need, but I want to preserve quality of it.

And when things grow past a certain point then you know, you go, how do I go from having eight relationships to 80 to 800 and what do I do when it becomes, you know, when you get to the point I feel so bad [01:25:00] a lot of times now I go to conferences or people email me and they say, I spoke to you at X and it was two years ago and I do not remember what they look like 'cause I'm bad with faces anyway.

Or I'm not great with names. How do you negotiate that? And I mean, I guess a lot of it is, it's, it's faith that the message will get where it needs to get because this is the divine doing its work. But as a human it's a little nerve fracking. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. I'm trying to think. There were multiple things when you were talking.

I'm like, what was, I know there were multiple things I 

Tava Baird: was gonna say there was the changing the books. 'cause I had to make notes too. There was the, do you change your books and texts as your teaching and your evolution happens? There was making recordings, which recordings to me sometimes feel impersonal, you know, because I'm so used to teaching in a haunted inn with people I can embrace.

And that I [01:26:00] can sit right there as they walk through the four mirrors and panel directly from them, what Samuel wants to tell them. You know, that's an experience that I can't ask to somebody else. And so what would an intro level li Lithian philosophy class look like? You know, does it have somebody else passing on the historical information?

And then I'm just channeling a group of people, you know, like what does that look like? And then the idea of what happens when the message grows to the point where one, where I become the choke points in the flow. 

Jennifer Taylor: Um, okay. So yeah, the books. I thought that was a really an interesting question because I forgot that that book is really not, it's definitely not the work that you're doing now, but it sounds like, I don't know that it's necessarily has content and that, that you don't agree with.

It's just not how you would, [01:27:00] that you would say that that information is inaccurate, but it's from a different perspective and just not the way you would do it now. But I think it's really valuable to still have resources like that out there, or have resources like, you know, Sam's first book.

Like that's not where we are now with our understanding. We've come so far with that. But if you've never discovered him before, if you don't even have a concept of who he is, more than, you know, the garbage you would get from a Google that's, that's where you need to start. Yeah. And for a lot of people, even your workbook, that may be the place where they are and maybe that meets them on their path and their path maybe isn't a Lilith path.

Right. Right. Maybe that really is their path and that gives them enough of a foundation in something that they really align with to help them take [01:28:00] that work forward. Or then find, you know, another mentor who is aligned with that particular thing. Right. Where I think one of the things that it kind of reminds me of is what I was saying about with teaching Reiki classes, that wherever you are on your path, the students that you have at that time are going to be the students that are ready for that level of work.

Yes. And ready for wherever that is. And as your level of work, raises and it evolves and shifts, those, the people that are called to you then are gonna be the ones that are aligned with it. But when you have the opportunity, then, like with recordings. If you have the opportunity then to continue to meet the people along their path wherever they are by the thing, by having recordings of where you were then and the way you would say it, then I think that could be really valuable [01:29:00] because yeah, then it's like you have access to and can support people who are on multiple levels of understanding in a multiple different types.

Not even that there's a hierarchy of it, but that are different places and have different kinds of focuses. Then it's almost like now you have a way of connecting with, and them getting to connect with you at the place that you were then, and then maybe then be able to sort of grow with that as they do if they want to, or this is the part of you that I needed, then I needed the perspective of where you were at that point.

And so I think it's really a beautiful thing to still offer those other, books and I really like their input of just putting on there just like we did at the podcast, right. With that, you know, this represents where I am, where I was then. then they have the opportunity to see it because I remember us having the [01:30:00] same discussion about the podcast of like, what do we do when.

 next week we may have a completely different understanding. Yes. The thing we talked about this week, what do we do? It's like, okay, we just say we're constantly moving and growing and Yeah. wherever we were in our understanding, we needed to be there before we could be get here to get here.

 we needed those steps. you don't wanna be, on a staircase and suddenly have to launch yourself over a chasm and try to grab yourself and pull yourself up. you need each individual step. So each class that's recorded, each book that you have out there is another step to help people to access.

And they can, they can step on based on wherever they happen to be. 

Tava Baird: I love that idea. I had thought about making recordings to be able to reach people across distance, but I hadn't thought of doing it as a way to reach people across time if they can access what they need to [01:31:00] access without me being there in my evolution, yes, they can access lots of different needs or different points on the path.

And I, I hadn't even thought of that. That's. Really good way to look at it. 

Jennifer Taylor: And it's actually, there are a number of people that, have become,really big names and things, and I find that I most resonate with their earlier works. it's like sometimes people that you've been following and you've been reading their work and are, are like, oh yes, I totally align with this.

And sometimes they go off on a, different, tangent or a different path or a different branch of something. And I'm really not into where they are now. I really don't align with that any at that at this point. But their earlier works are still really inspiring to me.

And still, hold so much wisdom the people don't have to follow the various branches that we take but they could find something that's deeply [01:32:00] meaningful that we would be like, really? that's the 

Tava Baird: thing that was years ago.

But you know, if they are starting out and they're following a similar path to the way that I started out, then that makes sense. thank you very much for that. I really appreciate that. 

Jennifer Taylor: I know you're, because you're such an in-person person, yeah.

And I am actually such an online person, like I've gotten to where I've taught. Almost, I mean, almost all of my Reiki classes online. And so that feels so intimate really to me, like having been on so in so many trainings and so many classes that were online with people all over the world, that that actually to me feels like a really amazing connection that we can be connecting from all over the place.

And then when I think about it, it's really, there's so much connection that you get through hearing somebody's from hearing someone's voice, and there's another, level of connection that you get [01:33:00] from being able to see them. And I've done a number of classes or things where like, even like with the chakra dance, in order to do it on, online version, you don't lead the, the rituals and the songs and things live online because they found that you really need to be in your own personal space.

Like you either need to be in a group of people live, or you need to be in your own sacred space and experiencing it with, you know, headphones or playing it that way. And so a lot of the material that's leading you into something really deep is a recording. there's a video and you're seeing her talk to you.

 Or you're just listening to the audio. And it is amazing how potent and how personal and deep it is hearing someone's voice. And when you think about it, it makes total sense. The recordings of the songs for, Omni Vara, all the recordings on the website. Yeah. They're feeling all that stuff.

You play it and [01:34:00] you feel it. And I think you also feel a connection. There's some connection that you feel to the person who's bringing it through. 

Tava Baird: Right. 

Jennifer Taylor: And when you're going through a deep process and you're hearing their voice and they're guiding you through it, even though you were not in the room with them, when they recorded it, you feel it and you feel like you're not alone because you can hear someone's voice.

And we know that that's also a part of you. You know, some aspect of you will be in these recordings. The recordings. It's your vibration of these teachings. The class, your vibration and who you are is going to be present. And I don't think it would feel impersonal at all. Like, it's really amazing how, how much you feel that person with you.

And I just like, I think the people who are listening to us now on the podcast, 

Tava Baird: right, 

Jennifer Taylor: they're really feeling us, you know? Right. They may not be sitting in front of the Zoom screen at the same time or in the same room, but you know, they can, [01:35:00] they can feel it. 

Tava Baird: Right. I think it was just, I've never, and I think this probably goes back to when COVID kicked in, was I had never taken any classes online.

I'm 53. I never college classes online. I never did anything online. So my first real experience with being online went from being in a classroom with my kids to suddenly we were online. And it was a time when there was so much fear and it was unsettled and, you know, we were suddenly and abruptly separated from each other and we didn't have the tools to even something simple like a camera that faced down so kids could see the book that the math problem I was trying to show them.

It was all such a challenge. And that time was so traumatic that I think I just never had the experience [01:36:00] of positive until we started podcasting. Positive online interaction. And so my first instinct is, no, we're doing this in the room. But there's so many people who, you know, my husband works online all the time and you know, people do take classes online and they do have connection.

But I think there's something psychological in my brain where I just hadn't had a lot of that and so I had sort of a natural aversion to it because it would bring up those feelings of like separation suddenly. well you have convinced me I am, gonna get some little stuff online, 

Jennifer Taylor: I think that's wonderful. And I mean, there are a lot of people who physically can't come to a place, right? Not just distance wise, but just couldn't physically, medically,you know, or due to other sorts of issues, be able to, to come and sit in the class or be able to manage [01:37:00] being around other people's energies and trying to take in the information and being able to create something.

You're really creating something more accessible too. Right. For everybody. Everybody has the opportunity to access this, which is, you know, totally in alignment with everything that you do. 

Tava Baird: Yes. Yes. Alright. I am this, this is now a goal. We are going to get Lili. We're going to start getting some little stuff up online.

Fantastic. Because I do, I do, I have people in the community who have a wheelchair or who have whatever. And you know, as pagans we are often, well, you know, heck we're teaching in a haunted house and a mausoleum that we're not designed with,wheelchair accessible ramps. Heck, the mausoleum doesn't even have a bathroom, you know, like does the dead, don't he?

 so I've really struggled with trying to find [01:38:00] locations that people with mobility issues and I have mobility issues, you know, can, can get into that are also big enough to support a ritual or have heats in the winter time. all of those things. So this, seems like a good way to go.

Jennifer Taylor: Excellent. 

Tava Baird: Thank you. 

Jennifer Taylor: You're welcome. Alright. 

Tava Baird: Woo. Well this was quite a journey today. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. So I'm thinking, I'm wondering what song will come through or if now we think about the pilgrimage. 

Tava Baird: Well, 

Jennifer Taylor: singing in the pilgrimage aspect 

Tava Baird: after our conversation today, here is what I have decided to do. I am. Not going to be jealous of your weekend.

I am going to make one of my own. 

Jennifer Taylor: Nice. 

Tava Baird: So I, go [01:39:00] down to Richmond for singing to the Bones this Friday and Saturday. Woo woo Richmond. I'll be at the aquarium, and then the Dark Flower Collective is meeting in Berryville on Sunday. And then, right now, I think the only thing I have for several days after that is podcasting with you and Jennifer Gerland next week.

Jennifer Taylor: Woo hoo. 

Tava Baird: I'm going to make myself a retreat. 

Jennifer Taylor: Nice. 

Tava Baird: And during those days, it's going to be me and Samuel and we're gonna sit down, but I'm gonna make some, some fall. 

Jennifer Taylor: That sounds awesome. Gorgeous. It's so funny to me that you were, envious of that, you know, that time and, connecting and bringing everything through because part of, part of my realizing that I needed to do that was I was like, you know, Tava has Samuel talking all the time.

Like, you know, you, you hear him talking and [01:40:00] he's contributing to what it is that you're doing, and you know exactly what you're supposed to be doing because he's telling you all of that. And I'm like. 

Tava Baird: The easy way. 

Jennifer Taylor: I need, I need it that way. Like I need to just be like, okay, what do we do?

And get it. And then realize, but I get things differently, so I need to really set up a space so that I can receive it and I can hear it because I don't just hear it. Michael isn't just showing up in the car and, you know, practically physically and talking, you know, clearly going, Hey, do this, do this.

I have to really slow down and clear our way to be able to do it. So I think it's really funny that I kept thinking, you know, well I need to be able to do that. And so that's what, that's how I ended up doing that from you. And then you're like, I want that, so, oh, no, no, I'm gonna do it. And it's funny too, because yours is really in a little bit in the opposite of your connecting to see what can fall away.

And I was [01:41:00] connecting to see what needs to come in that I've, I've been trying to bring into more of a form to manifest. 

Tava Baird: Yeah. I have so much direction it's sort of like the equivalent of a person who has a lot of meetings on their schedule. And I start going, Samuel, could this be an email? except that he doesn't do that.

And so I need the space to let things settle and to spend. I am with him because he has made so many things happen that I am having trouble in this physical body, keeping up with, creating everything that he wants, created and communicating with everybody that needs to be communicated with. So what I need is sort of like, you know, when an office gets a brand new system and it's like, okay, you know, here are the, here's the [01:42:00] workflow through this.

I need a corporate retreat with the archangel. so we could do some trust falls and have a couple of huddles. 

Jennifer Taylor: That sounds awesome. Yeah. And I invite everybody, you know, your situations are likely not the same as ours, but, and maybe they are very much the same as ours. but there are likely, there's likely time that needs to be set aside for some aspect of you to be brought into greater focus and more, you know, and this is a great example of how, you know, that kind of time can be very different.

It can be, you know, opening up and ushering in something new and the clarity around that. It can be how do I let go of the things so that I can continue on my path, you know, more unencumbered, it could be. Just an opportunity to see that the world will exist without you for a little bit of [01:43:00] time so that you can connect and center and take care of yourself.

But I invite you to, to spend a little bit of time thinking about, and maybe during the, the singing just opening to what would my retreat be like, you know, what is it that I need to stop and set aside time to receive? And I would love to hear what you come up with. 

Tava Baird: I'm so excited for you to sing. 

Jennifer Taylor: All right.

Yeah. Let's, uh, let's see what wants to come through. 

Tava Baird: [01:44:00] [01:45:00] Oh.[01:46:00] [01:47:00] 

Jennifer Taylor: [01:48:00] Oh.

Tava Baird: That was lovely. That was, oh, that brought so much through. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 

Jennifer Taylor: Oh, 

Tava Baird: I'm so 

Jennifer Taylor: glad 

Tava Baird: the drum and that voice. I have some thoughts on retreats here from Sam Al, if you would like. 

Jennifer Taylor: Absolutely. 

Tava Baird: He says, listen, friends, we hear tales of soldiers in retreat. We view it as a predecessor of failure.

Those retreating will no longer hold the line, and so we [01:49:00] hesitate to do it. We do not wish to crumble, to lose structure, to give up the flag. But in truth, all a retreat is, is this a removal of force? So much of embodied life is forced, the forced labor, the forced smile, the force of expectations and obligations, pressure pushing until the lungs collapse retreat.

It is not the end of advancement. It is a reorganization and re marshaling of energies. An opportunity to try something different that may succeed space to breathe a new place from which to gain perspective does not mean the sojourn is over. [01:50:00] It means that you have surveyed the field and are letting certain thoughts go, rather than clinging to a battle that did not go according to flan.

A retreat is a tool of a wise leader.

Jennifer Taylor: Nice. Well, 

those 

Tava Baird: are 

Jennifer Taylor: beautiful words to end everybody on. 

Tava Baird: Yeah. What if taking time for yourself, slowing down, serving the field, then deciding on retreat. Allows you to find the path through, allows you to gain the hill. I think I have been thinking of it as a sign of failure that if I have to slow down, I failed somehow.

Jennifer Taylor: I like that. Thank you. [01:51:00] Lack of a removal of force. Isn't that what he said? It It is removal of force. Of force. It's like, oh yeah. 

Tava Baird: And it is. If we keep banging our heads against things the same way I can make it, I can make it. And meanwhile things inside of you are under so much pressure that to continue the analogy, you're losing men all around you.

We always see those war movies where the first side that goes fall back. You're like, they're done for. Right. We think of it as failure, but fall back and simply mean we reposition, we put something else in front, we come in from a different angle and then we're able to gain the hill and plant flag where we want it to go.

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. Something that struck me too, when he was saying, you know, that the retreat is not kind of leaving all of [01:52:00] that, And I automatically kind of had filled in. It's like it's a return to home. It's a, it's a choice to go back home to yourself.

Yes. And to return to your center and realign and then decide what is the, the right way forward. And it may be that you decide that, that is not the hill that I want to be. I wanna be camped out on anyway that I've been so busy just trying to promote the advance of something that sometimes it may be that when we return home to ourselves, we decide, oh, that's really not the, that's not even my battle.

Like, I don't even know why I'm in it. that's not the thing that I want to accomplish. And it may be setting out in something and that there's no defeat in that. Right. Like, that is a, a victory of finding your center again and finding and reconnecting with your home and then deciding [01:53:00] where you want to venture out from and in what direction.

Tava Baird: Yeah. Heading back to home base and getting perspective and saying, what reinforcements do I need? And, you know, because doing that doesn't mean the battle is lost. It sometimes means that you can push forward in a way that is smarter and more organized and more connected. And with more energy than you had before.

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. And more strategic. 

Tava Baird: Yeah. I'm going on retreat. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yay. Oh, I can't wait to hear all about it. 

Tava Baird: Well, thank you so much everybody for listening today. We really appreciate you coming along on this voyage with us. 

Jennifer Taylor: Absolutely. Sending you so much love and so many wishes for really wonderful retreats for yourselves as well.

Tava Baird: Now, go out there and [01:54:00] cancel some stuff. Eat a little bit of Ben and Jerry's and figure out what the next step on the path is. Have a great week guys.