A Guide to Traveling Between Realms - Part 2

In this powerful continuation of last week’s conversation, Jennifer Taylor and Tava Baird dive deeper into Samael’s teachings on time slipping, liminal travel, multidimensional movement, and energetic discernment.

What began as a discussion about uncontrolled journeying evolves into a practical and deeply compassionate guide for those who feel they naturally move between realms, experience altered states, travel energetically in dreams, or struggle with feeling fully embodied in everyday life.

Following another unexpectedly immersive energetic transmission from Jennifer, Samael delivers a series of clear “bullet points” for travelers between worlds — guidance meant to help listeners remain grounded, sovereign, and safe while navigating liminal spaces.

Together, Jenn and Tava explore:

• The signs of uncontrolled time slipping
• Why liminal travel can become addictive
• The role of sleep deprivation, substances, psychic environments, and trauma in opening altered states
• Why highly sensitive people often absorb energetic “dust bunnies”
• Calling in guardians, guides, and gatekeepers before journeying
• Why Samael says: “Do not journey alone.”
• The importance of grounding practices, routines, and grounded people
• The sacred role of “natural grounders” in spiritual communities
• How music itself can trigger altered states and energetic travel
• Dream journaling, mindfulness, and calling your energy back
• Why identity built entirely around spiritual gifts can become destabilizing
• Energetic boundaries, discernment, and self-worth
• The difference between service and self-sacrifice
• How physical-world boundary issues often mirror energetic ones
• Working with Archangel Michael, Elen of the Ways, Hecate, Persephone, Azrael, and other liminal guardians

sample of Samael's guidance provided in this episode:

“There must be someone at the center of the traveling to decide yes and no. Otherwise, you will become a victim.”

Jenn and Tava discuss how spiritual abilities can sometimes become intertwined with identity, trauma, chaos, or self-worth — and why true sovereignty requires remembering that who you are is far greater than the gifts you possess.

⚠️ Please Note:
This episode contains another deep energetic sound transmission with periods of silence during active energetic work. Jennifer strongly advises listeners not to listen while driving or operating machinery.

The episode closes with “Peace and Release” to help listeners clear lingering energetic residue and return gently and fully to the present moment.

Please remember this podcast is for inspiration, reflection, and entertainment only, and is not medical, psychological, or professional advice.

We are two friends sharing personal experiences and evolving perspectives as we learn and grow. This is not a substitute for your own discernment, inner wisdom, or qualified professional guidance.

Take what resonates, trust your intuition, and seek licensed support when needed, always honoring your own inner knowing and personal truth.

Thank you joining us today, you are a valued member of our tribe!  If you are enjoying the podcast, please consider telling your friends and sharing it on social media.  We would greatly appreciate your support in helping us reach others and spread our messages of worth, openness and exploration. 

Connect with your Hosts!

Tava Baird:   tavabaird.com or https://darkflowerbooks.etsy.com.

Jennifer Taylor:  Amnivara (previously Willow Ridge Reiki and Healing Arts)           https://www.Amnivara.com/

Transcript

A Guide to Traveling Between Realms Part 2 S4EP4

JENNIFER TAYLOR: [00:00:00] Thank you for joining us for another episode of Mystical Musings Podcast. We will continue right where we left off with last week's conversation. so here we go, Enjoy

TAVA BAIRD: um, okay, he's still in a loop. 

Oh, I forgot I was 

Jennifer Taylor (2): supposed to be singing because- Ah ... he, he was giving you, he was giving you bullet points. Which is always really good. Like the last time we got bullet points, I think we got 10 steps to sovereignty.

Mm-hmm. Which has been so, so helpful. 

TAVA BAIRD: So I've already got five. I'm gonna rewrite them to put myself back in the head space and see if I can get him off of his little devotion. It's not little. Okay, that did it. Um, he was having a little... So I shouldn't say a little. He was having a devotional chant to Metatron, so 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: okay.

TAVA BAIRD: Yeah All right. "I'm ready to speak." Okay. All right. 

Jennifer Taylor (2): So before you listen to this next song, I just want to let you know that it turned into way more than just sort of the [00:01:00] opening song, Yet AGAIN! and it more resembles an energteic session as there is a period of silence during it. During that time, there's a lot of energetic stuff happening, you just can't hear it.

and just so you will know,

you'll be kind of brought back out of it, 'cause near the end I start toning again. So I'm going to extra, extra emphasize do not listen to this while you're driving. So here we go!! enjoy!

Speaker 4: [00:02:00] [00:03:00] [00:04:00] [00:05:00] [00:06:00] Om, am, am, am, am, am, aye. Om, am, am, am, a- om, aye.

Om, [00:07:00] om. Om. Om.

Oh.

Speaker 5: Hmm. Ah.

Hmm.

TAVA BAIRD: Well, that certainly brought through a lot. Um, I don't know if you've looked, but 10 Steps to Sovereignty is one of our most listened to episodes. And, um, Like, we have people all the time that we refer to it. We're like, "Just go to that [00:08:00] one. Listen through. That may help you with your, what's going on in your house."

Um, I have a feeling we have, we have nine bullet points here. Awesome. I think there's nine, that I think will help here. so here we go. So the question was, uh, what if you are an, um, you know, someone who uncontrollably time slips? You find yourself not in your body, frequently. You have journeyed all over the place.

you're maybe no longer sure after listening to this podcast if everything that you witnessed was a past life or, something that happened in between lives that you observed. what happens if this is happening to you all the time, and especially if you think you may have had, entities skating along on your coattails, so that they could take a nice little wormhole ride with you at different times?

So this is what Samael says to do. He said, "First, understand what it is." [00:09:00] So the simple fact that you go, "Okay, I need to take a look at this. This is maybe perhaps my life feels very chaotic all the time, and I find myself uncontrollably in other places. and it's not just ADD. I'm actually in other locations.

I'm standing on different energetic platforms. I'm seeing all sorts of things, and perhaps it's even impacting my life because of the way it causes me to view myself and the level of energy that is always moving around me and in me." So first off, just understanding what it is and that there is something going on.

second- "Do not be tempted to move too often of your own volition." He says, "be careful of addiction ." So there's uncontrolled where it's [00:10:00] just happening to you. But being able to do this and pick up information from other places and witness other things and see other realms can also be a rush, right? And so you may really like that rush and to have access to all of that knowledge and those experiences.

It may be, especially if you've been doing it since childhood, big part of how you think about yourself and who you are. And so it may be kind of like the potato chip idea. I just time slipped, but I think I'm just going to have one more, right? Like I'll stop halfway down the bag. So if you are also making choices to do it because of how it feels and you're somewhat addicted to it, keep in mind that you are, you're maybe contributing to your own chaos.[00:11:00]

Number three, "address physical habits and conditions that may lead to it and moderate." So number one, if you are constantly sleep deprived, that is going to put you in a liminal state just walking around during your day. You're not going to be as mindful of what you're doing. You're not going to be as conscious of what you're doing.

It's going to be much easier to slip into an alternate state. So if you have horrible sleep habits like yours truly, where you tend to sleep for four hours and then nap for four hours and your body isn't really ever getting to come down and process things, you're going to want to look at your sleep habits.

He also mentioned "the intake of substances and alcohol." So, you know, that couple of glasses of wine that puts you in an alternate state or, you know, hey, it's the gummy cannabis [00:12:00] and let's enjoy that. That's great. But you're putting yourself into an alternate state that makes it more easy to time slip. So keep in mind that if you are only going to do it a certain amount of time and you really want to have that lovely evening glass of wine, maybe cut down in other areas, right?

He mentioned "being in areas with heavy psychic activity". So we got back from Fertile Ground Gathering where we were literally there for a full weekend. around 100 gifted people that have active guides. We were on property that has had beautiful energetic practices and moving energy on it for years and years and years.

You can feel it when you walk into the room. Even though it's warded, if I'm putting myself in [00:13:00] a space where there's going to be a power of story event, where Michael and Gabriel and Samael and Lilith are all being invited in and there's a lot of people there who are heavily psychic, that's gonna up the possibility that I'm gonna time slip.

I mean, that's why some people go to power of story is to have the opportunity. But if you do it easily anyway, just keep in mind that, you know, your fourth metaphysical fair of the weekend might really make your resistance be going down, right? Or if you've been doing readings for people for hours and hours and hours, there we are.

You're already putting yourself in a liminal space, right? And he mentioned "time with those who have similar qualities." So, um, say your job has you work with people who are dealing with trauma or [00:14:00] special needs or something along those lines where those people may have, um, heightened abilities or may slip into liminal spaces easier.

That's the same thing as walking into a big psychic fair. So keep in mind that at the end of your eight-hour shift as a psychiatrist or a nurse or a special ed teacher or any of those things that you were basically in a psychic space during that time and you're going to want to mitigate that with other practices.

Number four, "call in guides and set boundaries regularly." Um, and I thought this was really cool. He said to the side, "Ask for a guardian. Do not journey alone." This was addressed to you, Jenn. He said, "You call in Michael. Uh, no [00:15:00] one dares touch him." Right? Nice. So you start off all of your sessions by going, "Michael, I only wanna go where, what's in my highest good and everybody's highest good.

You're going to open the way for me. I'm letting your energy come through." Ain't no little peon gonna try to hold onto Michael, right? Like, it's, it, it just isn't gonna happen, right? But if you're doing all of this journeying, I'm going here, I'm going there, then you're kind of like everybody on the party bus, right?

and it doesn't mean that these are entities that wish anything negative. You're just going, and they're happy to go along for the ride. Maybe they're dropping off partway through, right? But their energy is around and with you. So this ask for a guardian, you call in Michael. No one will catch on. He said "no one will catch onto him, nor Gabriel."

Um, uh, sounds like the, the [00:16:00] angels, uh, that they're sort of ... They're off limits. Nobody is gonna grab onto Samael's coattail and be like, "Hey, free ride." Yeah, just not gonna, not gonna happen. But he says, "But if you have already brought someone along, then use the other aforementioned steps," right? So understand what it is.

"Do not be tempted to move too often of your own volition. Address physical habits and conditions that may lead to it, and moderate those. Call in guides and set regular boundaries." Um, and he said that "one thing you can do is ask your guides to remind you at the beginning of any session where you're about to journey, say, "Please ask me, were you journeying for yourself or another?"

Because in some cases, if you've brought back [00:17:00] somebody who's not great at journeying but knows that you are, and they're using their energy to kind of get you to keep moving so they can coast along, Make sure you're doing the energy for yourself, that you're doing the journeying for yourself. So you can ask for a guide or a guardian that at the beginning of every session says, "Are you journeying for yourself or another?"

to kind of make you go, "Oh, I really don't need to be doing this right now." Right? I, I don't want to be doing this right now. I'm about to walk into a business meeting. 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Yeah. So that, that's- I'm 

TAVA BAIRD: driving a car. I'm driving a car. That may be something that you can ask, and, and you can ask it of yourself. You know, like he says you could say that aloud- Before you go to sleep at night, am I journeying for myself or another?

And just keeping in mind that if you go somewhere, [00:18:00] you should be going for you, right? Um, grounding practices, and he adds to that, find grounding 

company. 

grounding people. So we know people who bring us back down to Earth, who make us laugh. Uh, I'm lucky enough, and you are lucky enough to know her as well, we have a friend named Ashley who is this natural grounding force.

And these are the unsung heroes in the metaphysical community. Yeah. They really are. If you are lucky enough to know one of these people, hold them tight to you and buy them a teddy bear and all the chocolate they want. Because when you are in a heightened space, when you are in ritual, when you are channeling, if something starts to go off the rails, all it takes is their presence to set [00:19:00] things on a much more even keel.

And I always feel bad for the natural grounders because a lot of times they're so grounded that they have difficulty getting to those lights of moving between realms or hearing spirits. But they are so necessary. I mean, they can be our first responders when the energy gets too high. But a lot of times they're like, "Oh man, you know, everyone here is having this incredible experience and I'm not hearing anything."

But boy, are they essential for the rest of us to have safe and healthy practices. So buy this person the wine. Um, you know, hug them tight and say, "Please keep coming to these events because we need you." You, their gift is very different than a lot of the gifts that we see, but it is absolutely a [00:20:00] gift. I know Samael has great appreciation for these people.

he always wants to honor them. He's often trying to... I know with Ashley, he always wants to give her flowers. Whenever there's flowers in the vicinity, he tells me to give them to her, uh, because of her contribution and work. So, um- Yeah, it is, it is 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: such a gift. I cannot tell you what it is like- Oh ... to have someone, like after a power of story, to be near Ashley and be like, "

TAVA BAIRD: Oh."

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Yeah. Yeah. 

TAVA BAIRD: And I know, I know another group, um, and they have a person who is like that, who literally is there at ritual as everybody else is, you know, going into a transcendental place. And they literally stand on the outskirts watching everybody, like a, like a paramedic basically. And if somebody starts to go, you know, like they look like they're out of control or that things are getting too wild, they will [00:21:00] just rush over and gently put their hands on this person and be there for them.

Or if someone starts to sob, or if someone-- And they come in and bring in their energy to bring that person down to a place where they can function. And it is, what an incredible... First off, how wonderful for everyone else that they can really open themselves up because they are in the presence of someone who is lending their gift and providing a service to keep everything balanced.

So, if you can find someone with grounding company, and you know them, a lot of times they're really laid back or they're very organized. Um, I know a lot of Virgos who are very grounding. That's just sort of the way they are. A lot of times Libras seem to fall into that category too.

there's just like a nice grounding energy to a lot of [00:22:00] them. so grounding practices and grounding people. Next, "simplification of life and adherence to routine." So if you are overwhelmed by everything in your environment, you're gonna tire more quickly, and your mind might want a little bit of escapism at times and have a tendency to open itself up to journeying when you don't necessarily want it to be there.

But if you can simplify your life and stick to a routine, then you are going to be in a more stable and grounded place when you do travel, and better able to handle the energies there. He also says if an uncontrolled session happens where you just suddenly, "Whoa, [00:23:00] I was just in the middle of a civil war for a few minutes.

I was jogging past a battlefield, and suddenly I was there and 15 minutes passed." Take time afterwards if that session happens to rest, to eat, to get grounded. Do not immediately go, "Yeah, I'm gonna go do nine readings for people this afternoon," right? Take that time and go, "It happened. I recognize that it happened.

Let me take precautions to balance myself out." 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: I wonder if that would also be another good use for playing peace and release to help to release- Yes ... spirits and things that may be a t- stuck to your, uh, stuck to your tape. 

TAVA BAIRD: Yeah. The get rid of the metaphysical dust bunnies.

Peace and release would be amazing. I mean, all of that, the music is very, you know. And, and [00:24:00] I had somebody ask me a neat question this morning. There is a doll on their way to them, and I said, "When the doll arrives, play some music for the doll, in case the spirit that's there is a little bit hungry."

Um, and they said, "What kind of music?" And I was like, "Any is fine." But I'm realizing music, depending on the type of music, also cause us to become very transcendent, right? So if you are a person who, music carries you away or certain types of music carry you away, those might be ones that you wanna play a little less of at this time.

You know, if you find yourself while listening to classical music in an alternate state of mind, maybe avoid the classical and play something else. Something a little more grounding, something with a little more, like, rhythm or beat to it. [00:25:00] If you are a person who gets carried away by dance, then maybe the rhythm of, or beat will be too much for you and you wanna choose something else, right?

So, you know, keep that in mind. Like, how does music affect you? Um, and if there is something that makes you leave your body, just be aware of that when you're making musical choices. For number eight, he said "dreamwork", um, "and recording to train the mind." So a lot of people journey in dreams. Keeping a dream diary where you write down anything that you remember, for many people, doing that allows you, when you are in a liminal space, to be more conscious of the fact that you are in a liminal space.

Basically, what happens is you put a notebook next to your [00:26:00] bed, and every time you wake up from a nap or sleeping- You write down the date, and you either write down nothing happened or these are the fragments of dream that I remember. And for a lot of people, you will find, if you do this religiously, that you will have...

You will start to remember more of what happened in that liminal space, and you may get to a point where, while you are in the liminal space, you will recognize that you are in it and go, "Wait a second. I know I'm gonna have to write this down later on. Why is there a giant purple unicorn over there? I'm probably not awake."

And then you'll have more control of what happens in that space. Mindfulness practices. So if you've never studied Buddhism, they talk a lot about, especially in, [00:27:00] uh... Well, I only know Zen because that's what I practiced. But, you know, there's this idea of chopping wood and carrying water, that you're doing the dishes and you're doing it focused on what you are doing.

That's incredibly grounding. It keeps you in the present, right? So whenever you are doing little tasks like driving your car, doing something that keeps you in the fact that you are driving your car, whether you narrate what's going on around you outside, or maybe you play the license plate game where you're looking for an A or a B or a C, but you're doing something that's keeping you, your consciousness there, not out the window, right?

And so those mindfulness practices can really help to bring you back to being here now. And then the last thing that he said for [00:28:00] number nine: regularly assess your energy and call it back if necessary. So if you did just time slip or you did just wake up from a dream where you were standing there during the French Revolution, take a few minutes to breathe and say, "I call my energy back.

I call my energy back," and visualize that energy coming back from those other spaces to you. And ask your guardians to filter and clean out all that energy as it's coming back. There's always gonna be a little bit of residual, like coming back from the beach and there's still a little sand in your shoes.

But, you don't wanna leave big hunks of yourself in other places because that's going to lead to you feeling like you're out of your body, which is again going to lead to you being out of your body even more. [00:29:00] So just these are all different things that you can do to help train your awareness of when you are in a liminal space and be conscious of it, and also to counterbalance, the energy that is swirling around you when you do travel.

I know while we were away at Fertile Ground, Samael talked about, um, when Jenn moves between spaces, it's almost like she's running around in a circle between realms, and it's almost like there's a kaleidoscope of Jenn. And, it's like this circular path that she's following, which is the path that I was drawing at the beginning.

This moving, this skipping. But the thing about that diagram is that there's always a completion of the circle and a return to that starting point in some way. So when you have run the whole circle and [00:30:00] come back to your starting point, which is here, take that time to make sure that connection is really strong before you launch off on your next circuit.

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Well, thank you. Thank you for bringing that through. I was just thinking, as I was hearing him talk about all the stuff not to do, I was like, if I were listening to this going, "This is me," I would be freaking out. So I'm so grateful to have it. I love it when he does that, when he's like, "All right, bullet points.

This is what to do." 

TAVA BAIRD: Boom, boom. Yeah. and the thing is, is that, you know, if you are doing it instinctively, if you're doing it naturally, and life is going along swimmingly for you, then you probably already have guides in place, and you already are probably taking the right precautions for you. And like he said, ain't nobody gonna, you know, skate along on Michael's robe, right?

But if you find that all the time you feel like your life is literally spinning out [00:31:00] of control, and you are spending time going, "Oh my God, I have to process the guilt of being Marie Antoinette," or, "Oh no, I think I've had 400 past lifetimes," that there may need to be alterations made because it can have an impact on how you see yourself, on how you see your worth, on how you see your current journey.

And we don't wanna waste this incarnation. Like, If you're out of your body so much that you might not as well even be in it, then when you do end this life and you get back to that in-between state, you're gonna be like, "Man, why did I go to all that trouble?" Right? I went to all that trouble to try to discover new divine pattern, and then I spent my whole time with my head somewhere that I could have been without ever being incarnated.

Like, you are in this body right now, in this one incredible, [00:32:00] unique, precious, dynamic, creative life. This is incredible. Live it here. I mean, take your trips and do your work and do your magic, but just make sure there's a balance and that you are not 90% living in a liminal space and 10% here.

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Yeah, and I think part of that, too, just like he was saying, to make sure that, you know, are you journeying for yourself or are you journeying for someone else? I think doing some, introspection of even if I'm journeying for myself, why am I journeying? Am I- Yes ... is it just curiosity?

And like you were saying, the addiction, like, it can be really addictive. Just the idea of there's so much information out there, there's so many different things that I could see, and places I could go, and things like that, I would kind of add to that to make sure that it's a journey that is really in your best interest.

Even if you're journeying for you, [00:33:00] is this going to inform my current existence in a way that's meaningful and valuable and adds to my knowledge and my ability to do my work here in this lifetime? As opposed to just being lots of fun trivia facts. You know, it's like , are we trying to just be able to have a whole bunch of just interesting little tidbits, or are we going for the purpose of reclaiming part, uh, yeah, part of our past knowledge so that we can utilize it in this lifetime?

Or, are we looking to clarify something that we've been experiencing and looking for the original source of it? Or, depending on what it is, so much of that can just be pure curiosity and not in a way that's going to be beneficial. I mean, it's good to be curious, but having a purpose for that kind of travel, I think makes it a much more rich experience.

And then really, you [00:34:00] can bring back valuable information and valuable insights and wisdom that you've gained in other lifetimes or tools that you've gained in other lifetimes that can really add to what you're doing, as opposed to kind of cluttering and being too much. It's kind of like going to lots and lots of fairs and being like, "Ooh, I really like cats.

Oh, and I wanna collect this. Oh, and I wanna get that, and I wanna get that," and then you have a room that is just so filled with things that you can't really function well. Versus, "Oh, I'm gonna buy that because-" it has m- beauty and meaning to me. Or, oh, I'm gonna bring this home with me because, um, you know, this is gonna remind me of an aspect of myself that I'm developing.

Or, you know, something like that. Like, you can almost think of the journeying and the traveling as going shopping, and making sure that you're not just cluttering your environment and bringing back a bunch of stuff just for the sake of the fun of [00:35:00] purchasing. But that there's a reason, and that what you're bringing back is going to add to your overall purpose in this lifetime.

TAVA BAIRD: Absolutely. Um, Samael has something, he very much liked that. here's another little phrase from him on that topic. He says, "Self. A strong sense of self is needed for travelers. If your identity 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: is 

TAVA BAIRD: traveler, examine your worth." 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Yeah. Yeah. 

TAVA BAIRD: If, if your whole thing is, "Well, I'm the traveler and that's how everybody sees me," y- there has to be a person there to travel.

If you're being buffeted about by the winds of other energies when you travel, and there is no purpose for your wandering, you're not seeking anything, you're just, [00:36:00] traveling because that's what you do, there may be self-worth issues that you need to look into. 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Yeah. That, someone that I'm close to has for years had really uncontrolled, like, seeing of spirits around them.

And a strong attraction to, spirits to them. And as a result, like, it was both torture for the person, but it was also... You know, and it kept, kept them in a constant state of chaos. But it also became part of their identity because it was like, "I have these, I have these special powers." And that was actually how they were- Yeah

you know, it's like, "My powers. My powers." And I think there's definitely a holding onto the idea that, yes, it may be destroying me, but it's also this unique power that other people don't have. And that became a big part of the identity. And once they were able to start getting a sense of how to control [00:37:00] it and how to shut some of it down, and then that was happening on its own, there was a sense, "I've lost my power."

Like, "I don't know who I am." Like, you know, who they were had been so tied up into the very thing, their ability to basically be creating complete chaos in their lives, that- It was a really hard thing to recognize that they were separate from that ability. and having to find that.

And it, it got to a point where a lot of those things sort of shut down, and I had a message from my guides that felt like it, it was a you're not, you're not losing your ability to do this, but your guides are going, "We need to just turn the volume way down so that-" Yeah ... you can figure out who you are, and you can find some stability.

And then the volume can be turned up voluntarily later on in your life when you have more of a sense of who you are. Because if, your [00:38:00] gifts or your talents or your natural ability to do this is creating constant chaos and trauma in your life, then they're not benefiting you the way that they're meant to.

And I love that- Mm-hmm ... you know, find that strong sense of self, because recognizing that who you are is not the things you can do, but that that self exists outside of all of those different abilities. 

TAVA BAIRD: Absolutely. Uh, Samael also added, "There must be someone at the center of the traveling to decide yes and no.

Otherwise, you will become a victim." So if you are so busy traveling that, and you don't have a strong sense of self, that when something does approach you, you're not going to look with discernment and say, "Okay, yes, you can come along. No, you can't. Okay, yes, we're going to do this. No, we aren't. Okay, yes, I'm going to tolerate this [00:39:00] behavior," or, "No, I'm not."

And if you don't have that, you're gonna get everybody. You're gonna get everybody 'cause there is no discernment, and It opens you up to become a victim because there is no discernment and no firm boundaries or decisions on your part, which means other entities can use you any way they like.

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Yep. Right? So- And to be able to do that, you have to feel like you are worthy of deciding. You're worthy of saying- Yes ... you know, "My desire is just as valuable, and I can say no to somebody who really, really, really wants me to do whatever it is, whether it's in this realm or another one." The um- Right

yeah, it's like that just, that feeling that I have a right to decide, and it's totally good and right for me to make these choices as opposed to being, influenced every which way by everybody else's strong needs. Because it seems like especially those- I mean, [00:40:00] you know, people and bodies definitely have all of that too, but it seems like they, the disembodied especially have very, very strong desires of like, "This is what I want.

This is what I need." And if you're going to allow them to be like, "Well, they want it really badly. I should, you know, I should do that," you're, you're just gonna be constantly, you know, tug of war with, you know, back and forth, between so many different beings who want something different for you than you would want if you were to stand at the center of yourself.

TAVA BAIRD: Right? I always say you're too much for a T-shirt. But- ... uh, Sa- Samael often says, "If you wouldn't tolerate it from the living..." Uh, with, in my case, he says, "Don't tolerate it from the dead," because the dead are often who I'm working with. But basically, that can be expanded out for, all entities, all beings.

If you wouldn't tolerate it from someone in line at the grocery store grabbing a hold of you without your permission and [00:41:00] gra- letting you drag them along to the parking lot, certainly don't put up with it from a stranger in a liminal space, right? You don't know what their aims are. You don't know what they're doing.

And, just know. Like, being able to say, "No, I'm worthy of boundaries. This is my energy. I am a divine being. You wanna talk, I'll consider speaking with you, but don't just glom onto me. That's not an equal exchange of anything. that's using me for your own purpose." Um, so. 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Yeah. And it can be really valuable to look at...

Like, if you're thinking, "Do I have boundaries in my, life when I'm traveling or those kinds of things?" Look at the boundaries in your physical life, because I've found that those carry over directly to your boundaries and in your energetic work. So, you know, if she's telling the story of like, would you let this, these people in physical life [00:42:00] do that?

And you think, "Well, I mean, if they really needed to..." And it's amazing. You know, I realized years ago I didn't really get into recognizing my incredible lack of boundaries in my physical life until I started doing energetic work. And I was just, I was feeling all of the energy of the people that I was doing reiki on and I was like, "What is going on?"

Like, they had a stomach ache, now I have a stomach ache. They had an ankle issue, now I have an ankle issue. It was like, what is going on? And I didn't realize, until I got further into it that I somehow still didn't feel like I had a right- to not take on their pain and not take on their... It was like I really genuinely deep down, though I didn't...

I would've said at the time, "Absolutely no. Of course no. Of course I don't feel like I should take on their pain," I deeply believed that if I know about an issue that someone [00:43:00] has and I have the ability to take it from them, I, I should, and that's my responsibility. And then I started recognizing things like that in the outward kind of life.

So if you're wondering about your energetic boundaries, look at your actual, you know, physicalized life and see where would I... Like, you know, if... Uh, kind of pose questions to yourself like, like Tava was saying in the grocery store, and it's like would I let somebody hold onto me and follow me out in the parking lot or do whatever it is?

And if so, that can be a place to start. You know, you can start working on your boundaries in your everyday life with embodied people, and that will naturally carry over into your energetic work. 

TAVA BAIRD: Absolutely. When you think about lifeguards, they don't jump in with a drowning person and try to hold them up, or they will quickly be drowning as well.

They throw them a life preserver. they maintain their autonomy even while they are [00:44:00] rescuing. And I, I know we've talked about this before, a tendency, for us as healers to throw ourselves into the pool with the person, and that's simply going to lead to two drowning victims. we've got to be able to say, "Here I am.

I'm gonna provide you with what- everything that we need to do to get you out. But I can't jump into the pool and let you pull me under." Or I won't be here to help other people. 

Yeah. 

and one of the things I, I noticed when you were talking about boundaries, I noticed for many years, as you all know, I was a Montessori teacher and I worked with really little kids.

I worked with, you know, infants and toddlers for a large portion of that. so I got very used to over time, When I was first teaching, I thought my body got to become a jungle gym for everybody who was there because they wanted to sit in my lap. They wanted to hold my hand. They wanted to hold onto my skirt.

They wanted a hug. And so I [00:45:00] was, everybody's, you know, temporary auntie and was in there physically taking care of all these little people, right? like hugging them when they wanted a hug and letting them sit on my lap when they wanted that. And I found that what happened over time was I stopped having any sense that I had any borders, that I belonged to the 15 children or however, 'cause when I was teaching larger classes in my classroom, that I was a wa- my body was opening up my brain, but that I didn't have any boundaries.

And I realized that that was not a good thing to teach them, by example, by just letting them assume that my body belonged to them in whatever way they wanted to. And, because that's not how the world works, 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: right? 

TAVA BAIRD: And so then if a child came up and, you know, I have very interesting hair, and they always wanted to touch my hair because [00:46:00] it looked different from other people's, that I needed to say, "Now, wait, you can't just grab hold of my hair.

You need to say, 'Can I touch your hair?' And then I need to answer yes. And if I say no, then you may not." And they would... And you could see them, 'cause they were little enough, they were like, "But I want to." But I'm like, "That's fine that you want to, but sometimes you have to respect the word no," right? And I think when I first started working with young children, that was a mistake I made was I just wanna be everything that they want.

And so I lost an aspect of myself trying to be everything that they wanted until the day that a child pulled a whole handful of hair out of my head. You know, and I went, "Oh, that actually hurts. That's part of me," right? You know, and then I had to say, "Now, wait a second. Is my [00:47:00] not having boundaries actually serving them?

Or is it simply teaching them that it's okay to run over other people's boundaries? Am I enabling behavior that is not for the highest good of them and everyone around them?" And I had to change what I did. And, you know, sometimes I would have little kids in my class and say, "But I want to sit in your lap."

But the thing is, better for them to learn that no thank you means no thank you when they are three than when they are 18 and taking liberties. and it's hard because especially if you're working with the unseen, we feel so excited and grateful to be blessed with their presence. We also have to remember that we're blessing them with our presence.

They are in the presence of [00:48:00] us. And so there needs to be mutual respect before any sort of working or learning or traveling together can occur. 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Yeah, absolutely. I love all of what you just said. there were a couple things as you were going through the bullet points that I was like, "Oh, I wanted to comment on," but I wanted them to be able to be intact so that 

We could use that as a reference for people. Mm-hmm. There, there were a couple thing. One you were talking about asking or having the energy sort of filtered by your guides as you're calling the energy back. And, I had an experience with Archangel Michael recently with someone who I was helping to kind of guide in calling back more of their energy that they had sent with those that had crossed over.

And I felt actually Archangel Michael, It felt like he stuck out his wing and like fil- to filter all of the, like all of the [00:49:00] energy that was coming back to him, and decide then what was going to be just, the right amount and the right parts for right now, as opposed to, being bombarded with energy that's been leaving from them, maybe daily for years.

And it was a really cool thing to, to do that. That's awesome. And more and more, I've been asking Michael to kind of gatekeep for me in a lot of different ways of go, "Okay, you hold the space and you decide who's going to come in," according to the highest good of the session or, the discernment that I'm doing.

Like, if I'm using a pendulum, I've gotten to where I say, "I stand in my divine power and declare that Archangel Michael and only Archangel Michael and those he chooses to be in the best interest of this interaction may speak through this pendulum." and I really love that, being able to use. And I was like, well, if he's the judgment of God, and I definitely see that as the, like, [00:50:00] the higher good kind of judgment.

Like, the let's use some good judgment here. Is this a good idea or a bad idea? Then he makes a really wonderful filter for who and what should be coming in for your highest good, you know, in those moments. Right. Um, so I was thinking about that. And then also I was wondering, we were talking about guides and travel.

Um, a lot of times Elen of the Ways is another guide that if I'm going out and I feel like I need- a guide for that, that she is especially good, and also a grounded kind of guide in these areas who's really adept at traveling, the spaces between and navigating all of that.

And I was wondering, how Elen, uh, I don't wanna say compares, but like, you know, inviting in, Archangel Michael and Gabriel. You know, we know nobody's going to be grabbing onto their coattails. And nobody's gonna be- Right ... thinking twice about [00:51:00] it.

How might, Samael, recommend, like, when you might want to utilize or, you know, call in and work with, Elen of the ways versus Archangel Michael and Gabriel. Or maybe we add in Elen of the Ways, to that combination, because I'm certainly all about combinations of guides. I work with- Yes

lots at a time as opposed to, you know, just one. 

Tava Baird (2): Eh, okay, hold on. He's saying something here. All traditions have guardians. Look for one who speaks to you. That makes sense. So yeah. So, um, E- I say Elen and I, I've hear- also heard other people say Ellen. And I don't know what is closer to the actual Welsh, 'cause I don't speak Welsh.

Um, but if you're not familiar with her, she, is a guardian of the [00:52:00] spaces in between. She is a torch. It's said she can lead whole armies from one realm to another. Um, Hecate is another one, which is boundaries and liminal spaces. and we look at her both, from the Greeks and earlier from the Middle East.

Um, there are usually a lim- there's usually a liminal space guide in every tradition. Um, so if you don't currently have one, um, it seems like Samael is recommending if, if there isn't somebody that you're like, "Wow, I, I'm really drawn to that particular one," perhaps looking back at the pantheon that you work with.

If you work with, particular entities and finding one that speaks to you. I know there are a lot of people who are energetic workers or, or magic users who don't particularly work with entities. you might ask an ancestor Who was a known [00:53:00] traveler to step in in that case.

Maybe you have a grandparent who journeyed to another country, who immigrated somewhere or who went overseas, and invite them to come in. Um, you just don't wanna travel alone. And you can always-- Call on ,

Michael. I mean, he's, uh, he's gonna do it. and, other entities that are good at liminal spaces would be your angels of death, 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: right? 

TAVA BAIRD: Your Azrael, Samael, um, you know, anybody who, because death and the transition to death, um, Naiyama along the day, um, you know, is one who pulls back the veil for people to walk through and welcomes people.

So if you happen to already work with an entity that, um-- Persephone would be a great one. Persephone is one who travels back and forth between the material [00:54:00] world and the underworld. So anybody you've got who, you feel drawn to, who that's sort of their gig, um, I would invite one of them in, or like Jenn said, multiples of them in.

I mean, we can just keep going down this for a while. Yeah. I'm curious to see what we get during the end music, if it's just, if it's more of this that leads to next time, or if it's, uh, if something else that he speaks on, so. 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Yeah. It'll, uh, it'll be interesting. going into last time, I told Michael, I was like, "Okay, so just a reminder, this is a podcast, so like-

if when we go into a session sort of thing, "If we could maybe limit it to, like, fi- 10 minutes maybe, or like like, if it's really important and you guys know what you're doing, you know, then all right, I'll just keep going. But, if maybe...

Just a reminder, this is a podcast." [00:55:00]

TAVA BAIRD: Samael said time does not work the same way for them 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: so it's for- Yeah. That is, uh, that is becoming quite apparent. 

TAVA BAIRD: Oh, my goodness. Oh, wow. All right. 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Wow, well, this was a lot of good stuff. Let's see. This 

TAVA BAIRD: was very interesting, and it's going to be really neat when I teach my Chaos Angel class in a few weeks.

It's more info to add into that. Love it. 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Yeah. All right. Well, let's see what Michael and Samael have for us to, uh, close out- Sounds good ... our session. Let's see.

Well, what came next was not a closing song at all, but as Tava said.. 

TAVA BAIRD: Folks, here goes a whole new can of worms. 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: So we will save the song and the hour-long conversation that ensued [00:56:00] for next week. But we will close out this week's podcast instead with peace and release to help to leave you nice and clear and peaceful and ready to reenter your day.

Thank you so much for joining us, and I can't wait to continue our conversation next week

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