A Map of Many Heavens

This episode of Mystical Musings opens yet another doorway.

What begins as an energetic transmission quickly unfolds into one of the deepest conversations Jennifer Taylor and Tava Baird have ever shared on the podcast — an exploration of sacred geometry, inversion, consciousness, the “left-hand” and “right-hand” paths, and the mysterious point where seemingly opposite spiritual approaches meet.

Following a profound sound transmission from Jennifer, Samael begins revealing a series of diagrams and symbols centered around looping pathways, infinity forms, circles, gates, and intersecting realms — what he ultimately calls:

“A map of many heavens.”

Together, Jenn and Tava attempt to unpack:

• The meaning of the looping pathways and figure-eight geometries
• The connection between Amnivara and unnamed realms
• Why Samael speaks of “falling and rising”
• The sacred meeting point between the left-hand and right-hand paths
• How opposites become “and” instead of “or”
• Camera obscura, inversion, and spiritual perspective
• The “trotting horse lantern” and traveling between thresholds
• Why Samael says: “They need to be spun.”
• The role of sacred darkness and sacred light in spiritual growth
• Standing “inside the elephant” rather than viewing truth from outside it
• The heart as a gateway between realms
• The spine, wings, and central energetic channel
• Blood, bone, marrow, ash, transformation, and creation
• The possibility that spiritual work itself moves through the world like circulatory pathways

This episode also explores the growing realization that Jenn and Tava’s work — though approached from vastly different energetic perspectives — may actually form complementary halves of a larger whole.

As Samael explains:

“The true ‘and’ is bouncing between what others perceive as ‘or.’”

Listeners will hear the two of them grapple in real time with ideas surrounding:

• Michael and Samael as mirrored or inverted expressions
• The role of the heart as a center point between energies
• Traveling between realms through relationship and trust
• How perspective changes spiritual understanding
• The creation of new spiritual pathways through collaboration

⚠️ Please Note:
Like several recent episodes, this podcast begins with a deep energetic sound transmission that includes periods of silence during active energetic work. Jennifer strongly advises listeners not to listen while driving or operating machinery.

Please remember this podcast is for inspiration, reflection, and entertainment only, and is not medical, psychological, or professional advice.

We are two friends sharing personal experiences and evolving perspectives as we learn and grow. This is not a substitute for your own discernment, inner wisdom, or qualified professional guidance.

Take what resonates, trust your intuition, and seek licensed support when needed, always honoring your own inner knowing and personal truth.

Thank you joining us today, you are a valued member of our tribe!  If you are enjoying the podcast, please consider telling your friends and sharing it on social media.  We would greatly appreciate your support in helping us reach others and spread our messages of worth, openness and exploration. 

Connect with your Hosts!

Tava Baird:   tavabaird.com or https://darkflowerbooks.etsy.com.

Jennifer Taylor:  Amnivara (previously Willow Ridge Reiki and Healing Arts)           https://www.Amnivara.com/

Transcript

A Map of Many Heavens S4Ep5

JENNIFER TAYLOR: [00:00:00] Thank you so much for joining us for another episode of Mystical Musings podcast, and I am really excited to share with you all that came through. so we're going to begin with the, opening song that really kicked off this whole different, set of information that came through from Samael. And just know in this, like several of the more recent songs, this is definitely much more than a song.

It is an entire little mini energy session, and so the last section of it, there is no sound, but there's a lot of important energy happening, during that time, and Michael assures me that it's important to leave this in. So just know, again, please don't listen to this while you're driving, and then there'll be a period of silence, and then we'll come back in, and you'll get to hear what Samael, brought through Tava, and we will just go from there.

[00:01:00] So thank you again for joining us, and let's get started

[00:02:00] [00:03:00] [00:04:00] [00:05:00] . 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Are you okay? 

TAVA BAIRD: Uh, I thought we were ending. I don't think we're quite ending. I have to show you [00:06:00] something. Okay. First off, what the heck did you just bring through? Um- I am 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: not entirely sure. 

TAVA BAIRD: Okay. Okay. Folks, here goes a whole new can of worms. This is what he said "Falling and rising, Umshallah. Falling and rising.

The circular path with its root leads through the doorways of the eight. Once there, it is not only the cycles that can be accessed. What comes next will be in the edges of the roads. Is it up to Amnivara or down into the unnamed realm? 888 and eternities glimpsed." And then the drawing began. You had me do the circles, and then coming off of [00:07:00] the circle, a wavy line going up, and a wavy line with a like a little place dot going down, and an 8 superimposed on it.

And then he had me take away the circles. Do you see the thing that's like an 8 with a line sticking up from the top and going down from the bottom? 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Yes. 

TAVA BAIRD: Does that not look somewhat reminiscent of what you were drawing the other day that you Marco'd me about, except yours was sideways? And then he had me do these.

And I'm gonna make notes about what order they came in. This first one up here looks like an eight or an eternity symbol, and we know eight is sacred to Metatron, with a wavy line going up and down. You had a diagram or something in recent Marcos, but I think [00:08:00] Jennifer Jurlando talked about it too. It almost looked like a notch or something, but it was sideways, and then it had lines.

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Um, yes. Let me look. So there was, there were multiple things. There was one that, the one that it, it sort of like has an infinity kind of symbol with it, but it's like an infinity symbol with almost like a diamond in the middle. I'm trying to find the original one I drew. Yes, yes. If not, I'll just draw- That's the one 

TAVA BAIRD: I'm talking about

JENNIFER TAYLOR: all right. I'm, I'm just gonna draw, um- It had like a diamond in the center ... 

TAVA BAIRD: another 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: one. Yes. and it did the way you drew the eight where they're really thin, like they're long, thin sort of- Yes ... parts as opposed to like the fat, round kind of eight. That... Yes. All right. Let me- 

TAVA BAIRD: Okay. So the part that I'm missing- Let me draw it real quick

is the diamond. 'Cause then [00:09:00] he had me draw this same symbol with the eight. Then there was a sideways version overlaid with it. That's the one that I labeled two

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Interesting. Yeah, so this is, I don't know if you can see- 

TAVA BAIRD: Yes. Yours has a diamond there. Oh my God. Okay, I think I get it. I think I get it. I'm drawing a diamond at that intersection. Okay. So then the third thing that he had me draw was to take basically the eight shape and turn it into two sets of those circles that joined at the same place.

Two sets of those looping pathways. They have one common point. And then he had me draw it bigger and add a dot. and he started to speak again. And he said, [00:10:00] "Where you stand back to back, the left and right-hand paths joined. A map of many heavens."

I

I think your design, I left out the diamond part, but I think this is an energetic pathway, sort of for me, that's beyond the cycling of just traveling to other places and other lifetimes. Yours lays across it, and if we expand out those loops to be an eight, showing a common point between them where we stand back to back, the left hand and the right hand [00:11:00]joined.

Going up is the road to Amnivara, and going down is to as yet unnamed realm. I think that he is talking about him and Michael. 

Yeah. And 

some sort of a map of many heavens. I think he's trying to show journeying or what it might ... Michael was, has been showing you, there was the whole cylinder thing, and there was all of this as you've been doing the work and the road to Amnivara.

I think your design and my design are supposed to fit together in some way, and that that diamond shape on yours is stressing the point of intersection. 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Yeah. And when he said about us, something about which way will they go, up to Amnivara or to the [00:12:00] other, and us standing back to back We were just talking at Fertile Ground about us offering some kind of path 

'Cause we were seeing how your work and my work intersect. It's like we'll both be working with Mary Magdalene, but we work with them, like, in- Different ways ... a completely different way. Or, you know, we are working with these similar kinds of things, but we're working with them in sort of a right-hand and left-hand path.

And we had talked about how interesting would it be for us to be offering something where we could be having our paths, basically those circles going off in the directions that we're facing, but the people and those paths coming back to the same point to compare their experiences.

And I feel like that's, like, kind of like what you just drew and what he was talking about, how our paths, you know, we're each facing a different direction. But the work cycles back around and it touches each [00:13:00] other where our work overlaps. 

so if the two of us are standing back to back, and we imagine the center or the starting point of the circles being the space between the smalls of our backs, and there's a circle that starts, that goes out and around and out in front of me and comes back around and ends in that spot, and there's same kind of things are happening with the circles as you're facing the other direction.

But if we think of it not necessarily as a circle, but as when it comes around, so there's that spot that starts out, it goes out around from behind my back out in front of me, around and comes back between us, but then starts ... It starts a circle of rotation out around the other side of you, goes out around you and back, that it's actually like a figure eight.

And as people go through one path, If they continue, it's not individual circles that touch, but it could almost be like a [00:14:00] figure eight where you, you know, you kind of venture into the right-hand path and you venture into the left-hand path, and you kind of cycle back and forth so you're getting a more complete understanding of the whole.

You're getting the sacred light and the sacred darkness. You're getting the left-hand path and the right-hand path, the way that Lilith works with you and the way that Lilith works with me, the way, like ... It's, it's seeming ... And the other symbol that has been coming to me, and I was going back and forth making this symbol when I was singing, is a similar kind of thing, but with angles.

I don't know if you can

TAVA BAIRD: S- I see it Is that, isn't that a rune too? I could be wrong. 

Jennifer Taylor (2): It, it might be. So for those - I'm confused ... not seeing this , it's kind of like taking, V kind of going back and forth between like the point of a mountain and being a V.

We will put, we'll [00:15:00] find a way of putting images of this so people can see it. We have to put 

TAVA BAIRD: diagrams up. It's not a rune. It just looks like one, another one I was remembering. Okay. And- Samael just said, "The true 'and' is bouncing between what others perceive as or." So people always go, "I'm on the left-hand path or the right-hand path."

If we put them together and they are literally one continuum, continuous path that you can decide how often you dip into one or to the other, how often you walk into Amnivara versus the circles of whatever the heck I'm standing on, then that's 'and.' That's, that's truly 'and.' It's bringing together. It's not just shunning or.

It's giving or a joining point to become and. Oh, my God. 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: And Keith and I were just talking yesterday about how [00:16:00] valuable it is to have an understanding of both the, the sacred light and the sacred dark and- Mm-hmm ... how, just how much more it helps with all of the work that you do to have an understanding of both.

TAVA BAIRD: Mm-hmm. Well, and that's, I mean, that's essentially what this podcast has become is- Yeah. ... you bring in Michael and I bring in Samael. And you bring in the work that you do, and I bring in the work that I do, and we set them up and they complement each other. 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: And- We've become a Reese's Cup. 

TAVA BAIRD: Your Michael's in my Samael.

Your Samael's in my Michael. 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Exactly. Um. 

TAVA BAIRD: He just said, "Undignified," and then he laughed. Um- Um, oh, my God, Jenn. So, oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. End of the last podcast you just said something about, um, the, the spinning. There was something at the end of [00:17:00] the, the last podcast about- Yes ... Amnivara and spinning All right.

And I have the notes 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: here. He said, Samael... I had written it as Samael's last words in the podcast. What is the nature of illusion, Umshallah? Oh, no. The... Well, I'll m- go ahead and read it just for the heck. 

TAVA BAIRD: Yes. I'm trying to find it. Um. I know I have it here somewhere. Okay. It 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: was, here. It wa- it was the, um, he said camera obscura- Oh my gosh, and camera obscura is very- What-

much like this. Okay. So, so all right, I'll read what he said, and then I'll- Okay ... tell you what I'm thinking. So, um, he said camera obscura. you said, "I think he's trying to make an analogy here, but I'm not sure what... 

And he said, "How will people approach the Gate of Omnivara? They need to be spun." And-

TAVA BAIRD: We're looking at cycles ... 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: And at the time we were talking about that forward flipping over and over and over, [00:18:00]like going forwards or going backwards like the way that I, I guess sort of time slip or travel across realms. But What I'm thinking is, so he mentioned camera obscura, and camera obscura is where there's like a...

And you can make one in your room. There's actually... I'm gonna put a link to this so that you can see it, because I found it before the podcast and it's amazing. they completely blacked out every part of a room, including, like, this big window, and then just made, like, a dime-size hole in this cardboard that they had put over top of it, but everything else was totally dark.

And then on the walls, opposite that, that circle, was projected upside down and backwards the view of what was happening outside the room. so whatever's outside, so, you actually saw a landscape projected onto the walls of the [00:19:00] room, but the landscape was inverted and reversed. and it has to do with the way that the beams of light...

It was saying something about that light, like, travels in a straight line. So if you have light approaching a point from, like a steep angle up from the right down diagonally to the left, it's gonna come through that hole and keep going diagonally to the left. If you have light coming from diagonally down from the bottom right and going up diagonally to the left, it's gonna go through that hole that way.

And somehow the way the light carries the information through that, when it's projected on the other side, it's inverted and reversed. And I'm kind of thinking of that hole- That spot between the light outside and the darkness inside the room, that's the spot between our [00:20:00] backs. I'm standing facing the, facing the light with my back, with that s- that hole between at my back.

You're standing facing into the dark with your back there. and then that traveling of the energy back and forth makes like an inverted and reversed image on either side. 

TAVA BAIRD: He just said inversion, inversion, and he talks about you inverting yourself. And then he said, "Did I not tell you to add light at the gathering?"

Do you remember us going- Yes ... to get my car and him talking about adding lights and color to the power of story? 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Yes. And one of the parts of it, the part that made me now understand also part of what he was talking about, I think, with the camera obscura Is remember when we were in the car on the way back and he was talking about the rotations that I do, like that, like the rolling forward and backwards like we [00:21:00] were talking about in the last podcast.

Yes. 

And he was saying that it actually happens because I'm going so quickly across one threshold to another, and that every time I cross a threshold from one, like, realm into another, I flip. So it's like, let's say I start out facing... I start out standing upright, and then I cross that first line, and then 

All of a sudden I'm upside down. And it sounds like I may be upside down and backwards. Then I cross the next line and I flip back around upright, and then I cross the next line and I flip back around, you know, upside down. And that because I'm doing it at such speed, it seems as though it's a continuous thing and it's one continuous, like, kind of tumbling forward motion, which is that trotting horse lantern that he was talking about.

the appearance of a, of a trotting [00:22:00] horse comes from individual still pictures of a horse in different stages of trotting. But because it's spinning at such a speed, it looks like you're watching a little video of a horse trotting. And I was like, "I think that's what the trotting horse lantern was," is him- My God

alluding... And it's so funny because he told us this part in the podcast a month before we had the experience at Fertile Ground, where he was talking about how it only seems like I'm tumbling because I'm doing it at such speed. 

TAVA BAIRD: This has been Physics and Brain Melt with your hosts Oh my God. I just said to him as you were talking, 'cause my brain is going

I just said, "Why now? Where did this come from?" And he said, "Well, I speak when you are ready."

So- And he now says, "You have work to do." 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: [00:23:00] Yes. 

TAVA BAIRD: When do I not? 'You have work to do.' Oh, I know exactly what he's ta- We gotta go to lunch. We got work to do. We, we've got work to do. Okay. Yeah. 

I think he's like, "You need to go chat this over." But th- the whole freaking camera obscura and all of this makes sense now because I didn't know what he was talking about. Yeah. 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: I could not. From the trotting horse 

TAVA BAIRD: lantern. I don't- Yeah ... I, I didn't have any of that in science class.

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Yeah. Well, and at the time- Like, I've heard of a camera ... from the pieces of information we had, it still wasn't quite enough to put the puzzle together. It was like, we were getting a sense that, you know, from where I was and seeing the gates from Michael's perspective, and that you were seeing gates from an earthly perspective, like from the outside- Mm-hmm

that at the time it was like, okay, well, something... Like, as we go from one perspective to the other, somehow it shifts [00:24:00] and different. But now I'm like, oh, this is, this is totally what he was talking about. So now I'm really interested in the light. What was it he wanted us to add? Light and color?

Light and color. And so that's gonna ha- that then has something to do with how it translates through that dot maybe

TAVA BAIRD: Hold on, he's saying something else.

So just so you know, this is all said. He is sounding very merry and pleased with himself, which usually is a, "Hey kids, you're starting to get the lesson." 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: [00:25:00] Yay. He 

TAVA BAIRD: just said this: "What is the edge between Michael and myself? Could you perhaps find it in your spine?"

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Find... It- that's so interesting because I was just like, like when I was- Talking about backs ... imagining us, I was like, "It would be in the small of our backs." Backs back. Could you find it in your spine? In 

TAVA BAIRD: your spine. What is the edge between Michael... Are you talking about spine as if like courage, like that we need to do th- 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: I wonder if it's like along the chakra line.

Like if- think about like Our central channel. So oh my gosh, so our central channel goes- Uh-huh ... you know, fr- comes from way up above us in like light and comes through just in front of our spine, down and then thr- out through like our perineum and down deep into the earth.

Okay. [00:26:00] So if we're looking at, if the camera obscura thing, if I'm looking into the light and you're looking into the dark and there's this, the hole between us, what if there's a place along our central channel where it kind of switches? Because there's a place chakra-wise. So your lower chakras have to do with how you're existing in this world, how you work in your tribe, and how you're working, you know, like your connection to the earth and all those things.

Right. 

Right. And 

then right around your, like between like your solar plexus and your heart chakra is where there's, there's like this shift between, in those like three or four inches between being in a place that is really... Like your, your solar plexus is really almost kind of interpreting, like bringing through the will and the things from the up- upper part and how you're manifesting things in the world.

So it seems [00:27:00] like somewhere around the s- the solar plexus or the, between the solar plexus and the heart chakra- might be sort of that place in between like the sacred light and the sacred darkness and, the earth and the heavens and all of those kinds of things and that would be if it's along your central channel, that's basically like your spine.

Like it's, it's like right in, runs like right in front of your spine. 

TAVA BAIRD: Okay, I have a little bit more." Why are you together? When you spin, how does one orient oneself? "So I started thinking about spinning. And when you do twirl around, they tell you to make a point of reference, that every time you spin, you look at something, right?

So he talked about how does one get to Omnivara. They need to- "They must be spun" ... be spun. [00:28:00] I'm wondering if he's talking about, when we were talking about the idea of the balance of the sacred light and the sacred dark, if there are those who sort of study the things that I study who might be considered more left-hand path.

For them to sort of have a foothold to be able to understand Michael and the opposite path from Omnivara and that work, they need a point of reference from where they stood in the dark. And those who have studied more with you might need a point of reference in order to completely be able to understand the other type of spinning.

If we're going in opposite directions, but there's a reference point at the center where we both stand, they can begin to see [00:29:00] more possibilities and wholeness. What they learned with you will inform how easily they are able to learn from me, and what they learned from me will help give them a point of reference and inform and make it easier for what they learned from you, because there's already a commonality of language and energies there.

They're just, like we always talk about Michael up here and Samael down here, they are that 888. They are the gate, right? There's that center point. "Why are you together?" I think he's telling us that when, if we were to put a curriculum like this together for people who wanted to venture into areas that are uncomfortable for them because they're so used to the other type of practice- That there definitely has to be that center point, and that that's what we [00:30:00] provide through our friendship and through the experiences that we've had.

They will trust you because they trusted me. They will trust me because they trusted you. Because we are back to back. We watch each other's back in the spaces. So although our experiences and our practices and the beings that we work with are sort of masters of opposite energies, there is going to be a unique, experience for those who do not separate them into two separate paths, but rather see them as reflections and inversions of the other as they travel.

And it's gonna give them comfort so that they can go deeper. Yeah. I don't know. Why are you together? 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Wow. That- I mean, that really... You, you really, I think, just described it. And when you think about it, we talked about, like, I think in [00:31:00] one of the very first podcasts we talked about the idea of the elephant.

And, like, you know, we're just viewing the one part of the elephant. Right. When... And you think about when you were talking about if we stand back to back, between the two of us, we can kind of see all of it. You know? Like, I'm seeing, I'm seeing half of it, you're seeing half of it, and if somebody is, 

If you're working from that point between us and you're cycling through what both of us are seeing, you're seeing a much, much more complete elephant. You know? You're getting to see the elephant from all these different perspectives, and you have a much broader, understanding and more complete understanding of the whole than if you're focusing on only one part.

And with us being together, we can have an understanding of the parts that we would never be facing otherwise. Oh, boy. It just... It just said, "So, 

TAVA BAIRD: the singer says, [00:32:00] 'standing in front of the elephant?' She is right. She is right." 'Cause we're back to back. We can't both be really touching the elephant. The only way we could do that is if we were inside the elephant looking out, rather than being outward looking in.

Looking 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: in. 

TAVA BAIRD: So

"are you divine enough to inhabit? Of course." Oh, my God, dude. Oh, I, I wanna hear this. What is... "are you divine enough to inhabit? Of course." He's telling us to stand inside the elephant.

"Limitless, Umshallah. Limitless." 'Cause my first thought was, you can't stand inside an [00:33:00] elephant 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: But when I do energy sessions, that's what I do. I am inside them working with inside them, and what I'm looking at is looking out and around inside them. I... It's so weird. I heard myself... I just explained this at the end of a session the other day that, because they were asking me like, what sort of information.

Like, do I see what sort of trauma they're dealing with? Do I see what sort of past lives or whatever? And I realized, I was like, "I'm working beyond that." Like, I'm working so far behind the scenes of all of it that it's, like, in the almost, like, primordial soup. It's in,

that darkness place like, behind everything. And I'm working from so far deep within that I'm beyond the stories, beyond the lifetimes, beyond the storylines and the things that we see as happening and that we frame in [00:34:00] certain ways. Like, it's like I'm working at such a microscopic quantum kind of level that I don't see any of that.

It's like I'm in this just dark space where all the, this, like, the pure potential before everything. And I feel like that has something to do with working inside the elephant, because that's how I've realized I'm working is actually from inside, not from the outside. 

TAVA BAIRD: He's, he's completely on board with what you're saying.

He's challenging me that I don't think about doing that. He just said, "You see me outside, and yet do I not speak with your voice?" And then he says, "I choose not to seek control, and so it is channel, not possession."

Okay. [00:35:00] So you are very good at slipping inside, and it isn't something I've really thought of before, but I need to work on that. You're saying I need to work on that? "Yes, she has it." He, he says "you understand it. Be inside the elephant."

Ah, I'm gonna have to... Oh, this, this is gonna be conversations Be inside the- And 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: I 

TAVA BAIRD: still... Be inside the elephant. He seems to think you're already good at it 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: I feel like if it were an energy session, I would be like, "Yeah, dude, we're totally there." But then- But- ... when I think about it in terms of us practically working, you know, like teaching classes and working with [00:36:00] people, 

that's when it gets muddy 

TAVA BAIRD: So- This is... 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Oh my. So I drew this, I don't know, a day or two ago. And I thought that I was maybe screwing it up, and so I just kind of stopped. But I have a feeling this is somehow related. I started by drawing a circle, but as I went to connect the edge of the circle, it was like it bulged out a tiny bit, which made me think of looking at, like, a cross-section of the eye.

and I'd written... my first thought was oculus, eye. and then I made this additional circle that sort of came off to the side and connected it. Can I see? Let me see if you can see it. I don't know, this feels somehow connected Okay It feels like maybe, the two of us and the eye, are, our perspective or something of how we're looking [00:37:00] out 

TAVA BAIRD: Now, not to bring up the oculus thing, but do you remember earlier I said this will have to be a separate podcast, the Gates of Ovangie?

Yeah Samael says those are in a place called the Temple of Oculus Dei, which is the name of one of the classes that I teach, the Temple of the Eye of God. Um, ah, oh my God. Oh. I feel like we're so getting into... Why does this startle you? Inside is where the blood is. Don't you even start getting into blood, Samael.

Oh my 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: goodness, blood. That has been, that's been for our, our listeners- Why does this 

TAVA BAIRD: startle you that I cause you to change? Okay, this is what he's talking about. Um, I had people at Fertile Ground come up to me, and I've had a couple people say it since. I don't listen to myself when I'm channeling Samael.

I just don't. And when I go to edit the podcast, I know I'm not gonna change anything he said, so I just skip it. Like, unless I know I had a coughing fit while I was bringing him through, I just go, "I'm not gonna alter [00:38:00] what he said," so it stays, and I tend to skip it And so recently I've had numerous people come up to me and say that when I'm channeling him and he is speaking, I sound different, and like the energy in the room changes, and that my cadence changes and everything.

And I was not... I mean, I think I knew a little bit of it. I could feel him coming through, but I'm, I don't remember what I say when I'm doing deep channeling with him, like in a four mirrors ritual. So Jenn, I asked you, 'cause I had all these people say that, and you were like, "Absolutely. that's what that is."

But it kind of startled me a little bit because, I don't know, it's almost like I kinda feel like he's always right next to me, but I think there's a not as much next to as I think there is. I think there's a more stepping in than I realize. And it, and he said, "Why does this startle you that I cause you to [00:39:00] change?"

And I think this is all getting... And then inside is where the blood is. There's been a whole blood thing too. This is gonna be the most ridiculous podcast to try to edit. 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Oh, gosh. I don't even know 

TAVA BAIRD: how we're gonna do this. I mean, I don't even know if the last hour is gonna make it in because it's so... 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: This is wild.

This is- The, the fact that all of this also relates to the blood is like- 

TAVA BAIRD: Inside is where the blood is. Samael, are you going to go into that now? "You have work to do. You have work to do." You're not gonna give me anything else on that right now, are you? So we have to do work 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: first before we get any insight on that.

TAVA BAIRD: He's so much like, "Here, you can have this cookie after you do..." "You have work to do. Inside." You already said that. "Inside- Inside ... is where the blood is.[00:40:00]

Inside the bone."

Well, that's technically true, isn't it? I don't know. There's bone marrow. Is that blood? That's not blood. 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Blood cells are made, I believe, in... Or white blood cells I think are made in the bone marrow. 

TAVA BAIRD: You talking about white blood cells? "Inside the bone." Some kind of-" Inside the bone."

JENNIFER TAYLOR: I, I'm pretty confident blood cells are made inside the bone. I don't- Here, I'll look that up real quick ... 

he's...

TAVA BAIRD: Inside is where the blood is. Inside the bone. Inside the... Is inside the bone something different than the blood? Are you talking about two different things? You have work to do, Umshallah. He's gonna clam up now. 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Yes, bone marrow produces blood. The primary [00:41:00] site of- Hema- I can't say that word. Uh, the process of creating new blood cells, producing billions of red blood cells, white blood cells, and platelets daily to replace old or damaged cells.

This soft, spongy tissue is found in the center of bones, primarily the hips, ribs, and sternums in adults. Yeah, so that's where, all the blood, like the red blood cells, the white blood cells, and the platelets are all made inside the bone. So that's the place where all these new blood cells are being created.

So billions of red blood cells, white blood cells, and platelets daily to replace the old or damaged. I feel like, so inside the bone then- Like that's the- ... like that's the place that new things are created, and the [00:42:00] blood carries oxygen and all, and information. It ca- carries, you know, oxygen and the protector kinds of cells and all these things, and delivers it to all over the body.

TAVA BAIRD: "Bone is a vessel and structure." And it's created- It's created in the bones? 

Jennifer Taylor (2): Yeah, yeah. So within the center, within the bone, do you know like that spongy marrow? Yeah, yeah. That's where ... That's why people will have, like, bone marrow transplants that have, um, certain types of blood disorders and, or, like, cancers and things.

so if we think about it, inside the bone, if we're meant to be inside, that's within the structure where all, like, new things are created that are then disseminated throughout the whole body through the blood. So if you and I are to create something, and we go within the bone of the [00:43:00] elephant, and we focus on bringing forth creating new things, and then we're, we're sending it in multiple directions through the blood.

The blood then is like the circles. It's like you and I all right, th- this may be crazy, but if we are- It can't be any crazier ... it's like, yeah, I'm like, what? This is now where the line is somehow. So i- if we are standing in that circle, like that little hole in the circle, like that spot where all the, um, all the circles meet is between our backs, and we're standing inside the bone there- And we're creating things and that's heading out, like in the blood into the various places. like the circulatory system cycles the blood through the body.

Like, in the body it'll go, up into the head and up and out to the arms and stuff, and it'll go down into your legs [00:44:00]and back. Even the way that the blood flows kind of in your body, it's like it goes kind of down into your feet and back up, and up into your head and back down, and it all comes through the heart.

Heart. But the marrow is where it's all created. That's where the new blood cells, the new things. So like if we're to create a program then we would start within the marrow, within the bone where the things are created and then it's sent it's carried throughout the body. It's carried throughout the world or you know, our sphere of influence by the blood.

TAVA BAIRD: Hey. Uh, there's one more thing. 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Oh, boy. 

TAVA BAIRD: You just said it all comes through the heart, and he repeated that. "It all comes through the heart. Is there bone among the ash should she need it? What was [00:45:00] transformed is still a gate."

So- I don't know that he's talking about... I think he's talking about the work, but I also think he's talking about- My 

Jennifer Taylor (2): horse.

TAVA BAIRD: Yeah. 

Jennifer Taylor (2): Icon . So there was something... All right, when he was... Okay, he said, "Where is the line between Michael and Samael?" Like between them. Is it along the spine? Where is the edge?

It's the heart chakra, because all of the work, all of the blood goes- Goes through the hearts ... through the body and goes through the heart. So the heart chakra, the center of the heart chakra along the central column, along your central, channel energetically, that is the spot where Michael meets Samael- 

TAVA BAIRD: "Wings extend from the heart"

in our spine. "Wings extend from the heart." I thought... Do you [00:46:00] remember when we were talking about in Holy Roots you walk into a room and you pull your wings out? It's the lifting of the heart. I... Is it a lifting of the heart "and then out through the spine?" Sacred 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: geometry. And remember he was saying something about like angel wings it's like they don't come from the back.

TAVA BAIRD: Yeah. But I don't remember where he said they come from. 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: I feel like he said- He just said- ... the center or the front. 

TAVA BAIRD: Yeah, there was something at the... I think he's talking about the heart. The wings come from the heart." Black and white. Black and white." There is, in the Book of Samael, there's a little icon I use.

A little icon. 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Oh. I 

TAVA BAIRD: use to represent him, that he's one black wing and one white. For angel and ... Like angel and demon is what I thought it was. Except that they both [00:47:00] look like angel wings. What if, "what if it is Michael and myself?" Are you, you're, are you playing, are you playing with me now? I don't think so.

"Wings come from the heart. Wings come from the heart." Dude, uh, it all comes through the heart. "And is there bone among the ash should she need it?" 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: I remember hoping when the vet said... So for, for everybody, the, um, when we had to euthanize my heart horse a, a couple weeks ago, the vet had said, "When you get the ashes back, be aware it's not fine like ash."

Like it's chunky, like there are pieces of things in it. And I remember thinking, "Oh, I hope there's bone." Like, I hope there's a bone. And that I could get a bone [00:48:00] from his ashes. And felt like that was important. So he said, "Is there bone among the ash?" Or, "There is bone among the ash should she need it?"

TAVA BAIRD: He said, "And is there bone among..." He's doing his rhetorical question thing. "And is there bone among the ash should she need it?" But "if blood is generated in the bone, and the bone is now ash," and he talked about using ash as blood to consecrate. Are you trying to say it's all the same?

No, no, no. Do not start off on the nature of the body. No, no, no. I need a sim- Well, and then he 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: had said blood connection, earth blood connection. 

TAVA BAIRD: Earth blood connection. With- And the red ... 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: icon and the horse red [00:49:00] and- 

TAVA BAIRD: Yeah. There's ... What was transformed is still a gate. I think he's trying... Are you trying to say that even though it might not be in the form of blood, energetically it can be used the same?

"Yes"

So the bone, the ash, all of that energetically can be used the same, even though it's not technically that substance. It's not liquid. "Yes, add oil." Energetically he's saying if you need it, you can use anything in there. 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Huh. I keep thinking how, how am I gonna need it? 

TAVA BAIRD: I don't know. What am I gonna be 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: doing with this?

I don't know, but he seemed to- And yet I've had the sense that like, "Oh, I need the bone," and, "Oh, I should have gotten blood." 

TAVA BAIRD: Yeah. Like- There's a, there's a, like a, a need there for it, and he's trying to say, "You have the [00:50:00]materials." He hasn't said what it's for.

"I will not- I- ... tell you everything, Umshallah." It's... I, I have to admit, this has been a lot today. This is... These diagrams are still making me lose my mind. I'm so interested. But you're right. The blood all goes through the heart. "Where you stand back to back, the left and the right-hand paths joined. A map of many heavens."

Man, that'd be a great title for a book. Yeah. A Map of Many Heavens. 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: And I know, in, um, holy fire reiki, the term heavens really refers to realms. Yeah. Like realms of consciousness and existence. 

TAVA BAIRD: Mm-hmm. Yeah, 'cause he, he's been heaven is among the day. That it's, that it's a s- that it's a map of consciousness rather than like just a location.

Inversion, inversion. Did I not tell you? [00:51:00] There is so much on these pages. Girl. 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: My goodness. 

That was some really important, juicy stuff. It is so funny, I'm like, "Okay, so do I sing again? Because or do we be like, we'll just put like a soothing or something thing 

at 

the 

end?"

We 

TAVA BAIRD: might need like a peace and release. I'm a little worried that if you sing again, we're gonna end up with another hour- Well, e- exactly. I'm like- ... of him talking about... She's gonna get off on a, on, on a kick about, I mean, good Lord, you- there's so many pages from today. 

JENNIFER TAYLOR: Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, I f- have a feeling if I sing again, we're just gonna keep launching into, like we're just gonna be starting a whole new circle.

TAVA BAIRD: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Ugh, oh my God. Oh, my Lord. All right. Wow. thank you so much for listening. We seriously hope you don't need psychological help after these episodes. Uh, tune in next [00:52:00] time when our brains try to wrap themselves around angels.

JENNIFER TAYLOR: And oh, my goodness, all of this. Thank you for hanging in here through this just wild and wonderful ride, and, thanks for just being here and a part of the community. Uh- We're 

TAVA BAIRD: gonna go have a sandwich. Yes. 

Jennifer Taylor (2): And we will leave you with, uh, some music that is already recorded so that we don't launch into another hour-long conversation, and, we hope that you enjoy.

(channeled singing for integration)[00:53:00]

Speaker: Om. Om. Om.

Ai ane. Ai ane. [00:54:00] Anno.

Anno.

Ooh.