Threshold Magic Pt 2: Reframing Chaos and Holding The Space Of Compassion

In the second half of their exploration of thresholds, Jennifer Taylor and Tava Baird dive deeply into Samael’s surprising teaching that: chaos is not the absence of divine pattern—it is divine pattern we do not yet recognize.  Through discussions of dance, music, relationships, gardening, cymatics, and personal transformation, they challenge the common belief that balance is good and chaos is bad. Instead, they explore how chaos serves as the fertile space between forms, the movement between notes, the disruption that allows new possibilities to emerge. From interpersonal conflict to major life transitions, Jenn and Tava examine what happens when we stop trying to force immediate resolution and instead learn to trust the unfolding process, allowing hidden truths, deeper patterns, and unexpected opportunities to reveal themselves. 

The conversation then shifts into a profound exploration of compassion as an energetic state rather than an emotion, drawing on teachings from Jonathan Goldman and weaving them together with Samael’s guidance on "stepping to the side" and allowing chaos to do its work. Rather than becoming the referee in every conflict or attempting to control every outcome, Jenn and Tava explore the power of holding the Space of Compassion where healing, growth, and revelation can naturally occur. Along the way, they discuss chaos angels, gratitude, divine guidance, free will, and the possibility that some of life's greatest transformations arise not when we tighten our grip, but when we release it. As the summer solstice approaches, this episode offers a powerful invitation to see chaos not as something to fear, but as possibility itself—the sacred movement that allows us to become who we are meant to be.

Resources:

The Gift of The Body by Jonathan Goldman

https://essentiallight.org/gift-of-the-body-book-1

Learn more from Jonathan at:

https://essentiallight.org/

Please remember this podcast is for inspiration, reflection, and entertainment only, and is not medical, psychological, or professional advice.

We are two friends sharing personal experiences and evolving perspectives as we learn and grow. This is not a substitute for your own discernment, inner wisdom, or qualified professional guidance.

Take what resonates, trust your intuition, and seek licensed support when needed, always honoring your own inner knowing and personal truth.

Thank you joining us today, you are a valued member of our tribe!  If you are enjoying the podcast, please consider telling your friends and sharing it on social media.  We would greatly appreciate your support in helping us reach others and spread our messages of worth, openness and exploration. 

Connect with your Hosts!

Tava Baird:   tavabaird.com or https://darkflowerbooks.etsy.com.

Jennifer Taylor:  Amnivara (previously Willow Ridge Reiki and Healing Arts)           https://www.Amnivara.com/

Transcript

S4Ep11 Threshold Magic Part 2 - Reframing Chaos and Holding the Space of Compassion

Jennifer Taylor: [00:00:00] Thank you so much for joining us for part two of this episode talking about thresholds, and today we dive deeper into chaos and control and get a deeper understanding of chaos. So without further ado, I will, take you back into it with the second channeled song so that Tava could bring through an even deeper understanding, and then we'll go right back into the conversation.

Enjoy

[00:01:00] [00:02:00] [00:03:00] [00:04:00] [00:05:00] [00:06:00] channeled [00:07:00] Okay, I'm back. 

Tava Baird: Thank you. Okay. I hope I did a good job bringing this, as good a job bringing this through as you just did. Um, I loved how- Oh, I am ... if you guys are listening to the pod- listening right now, which you are, um- ... you can see Jenn end her session by, like, shaking herself all over, um, much like an exuberant Cocker Spaniel who just ran through the sprinkler.

Uh, there was a whole bunch of energy coming off of her at the end of that, session there, and it was interesting to watch you sort of shake it off. Um, hopefully that's not a copyright infringement on Taylor Swift. Um. But yeah, it was interesting to watch that happen. Before we dive into this, can you talk a little bit about that?

Does that happen to you often? 

Jennifer Taylor: Um, no. Actually, I don't do that very often, but [00:08:00] I... The end of that was really interesting. I, I was doing a lot of really specific movement that it was like I was working in four different quadrants, and I was moving within like one-fourth of the circle, and then would move things back and forth and up and down, and then I would move to the next quadrant, and I would do all these things.

And then the last quadrant that I was working in, I It was like I was creating this thing that looked sort of like some kind of seed pod maybe, that would fit like in the palms of your hand if you made, I don't know, like, like you were sort of, like you'd caught a bug in your hands and your fingers were all straight, and you were trying not to squish it.

It was about like that sort of shape, and size. And I like plucked it off of something, and then had to turn around and like stick it on, onto my finger almost like a, you know, like the fake [00:09:00] plants where if you pull off something there's that little thing where it was stuck on- Yeah

and then you could like sort of stick it onto another place. And I had to stick it down on my finger, and then I was spinning it. I was taking my other hand and spinning it around and around, and it was like propellers kind of came out, and it like was spinning off up above me, and then I was blowing on it, and it was, and it spun off.

But my left fing- index finger still had the sensation on it of like it did when I'd stuck that pod thing on. And I was thinking, "I don't really wanna hold... I don't know what that was, and I don't really want the energy of it." And so I was getting the sense of making that, I don't know what sort of sound I was even making but I was making some sort of sound that was sort of a, "Okay, get off of my fingers," you know, shed sort of sound.

And then, yeah, and then I was just sort of shaking it off, just trying to be like whatever that was, um, I don't think I want to keep c- keep having this sensation. [00:10:00] I actually still have a little bit of the sensation of it on my last, metatarsal, like from the last knuckle towards my fingernail.

Interesting. The sensation a little bit there. So I don't have- I, I- ... any idea what that was. But I was like, "Oh, yeah, let's maybe get that off." 

Tava Baird: Yeah. We're not gonna ta- carry this energy with us. Um, okay. Buckle in, kids. I know I say that a lot. I feel like I should be the spokesperson for a seatbelt company at this point.

Buckle in, kids. All right. Here is what Samael had to say "Neither balance nor chaos is controlled, but balance feels like flow and is not as feared. It feels calm, but it is not. Much is at work there. The incarnated of your world often believe that balance is a [00:11:00] rigid state of breath holding and chaos is something descended into when balance is absent.

But there is no or there. Chaos is necessary for balance, just as balance is necessary for chaos. Let us look at an example you are familiar with, dancing. My Lilith teaches this one early. "Side note, I don't know exactly what that means, but all right, we're gonna go back in. In- interesting little, uh, Lilith side note there.

Go back in. "Dance is tension and then release, falling out of alignment, then pulling it back in. Chaos is not the lack of pattern and formula. It is simply unrecognized, the transition between the [00:12:00] dance steps. When the singer sings, she often repeats tones or phrases. You might say she creates a balanced energy in the heart.

But between notes, between phrases, in the moment before she sings and after the tone ceases, she makes chaos. Chaos feels uncertain. There is a natural aversion to it among your kind who like to predict. But it is also excitement, anticipation, beginning, possibility. Your safest harbor started with chaos and will end with it.

You did not master chaos and achieve balance. They are symbiotic In looking at chaos in a more sympathetic light and recognizing [00:13:00] that it is a state of divine pattern, not the absence of it, you allow for the additional possibility that it can be used. And to use it, you let go. Give up control. Let the universe do its work while you work on the unsettled feelings inside you.

You unleash chaos and balance at once. More often than not, this breaks illusion and opens the way. Not a removal of yourself from the situation, just a shifting.

Riding chaos instead of succumbing to your feelings about it. Stepping not out, but to the side, [00:14:00] and letting the angels work the momentum." Okay, I think I have an example for this, if that made any sense. All right. All right. All right. All right. So we like very much to control things, and we fear feeling that things are out of control, right?

We see balance as this is definitely what I want, and chaos often as the opposite of balance. I think what he's trying to show us here is that if everything was balance all the time, if everything was ordered and predictable all the time, we would never evolve. We would never have excitement. We would never have anticipation.

So he's talking about in both dance and song, which we know are very important to Lilith in particular, [00:15:00] when you pause in your singing to wait for the next message for Michael to come through, the next impulse, that moment of, "Michael, what do you have for me?" is chaos. He's saying it's not a lack of divine pattern because Michael's in it, right?

And who, who is a better embodiment of divine pattern than... I g- Okay, Samael, I get it. Yes, we are all divine pattern. Sorry, he's talking over top of me, but if Michael's in it, it's not destructive, horrible chaos, right? There's, there is still elements of the divine even in our chaos Think about the last time a group of your friends or coworkers or family started to get in a fight, okay?[00:16:00]

Certain people had hurt feelings they had buried for a while. Certain people suppressed things they should have said in the moment, either because they couldn't do so gracefully or because they are averse to conflict or they don't have conflict resolution skills. And our tendency in a lot of cases is we want to make things better.

We want everybody to get along. We want to go back to the state before the fight broke out where nobody was expressing unpleasant things because it makes us feel yucky in our s- in our tummies, right? We can't predict if the relationships are going to be all right, and so we get-- we dive in. And now we are trying to get two people to talk to each other who might not be ready to [00:17:00] talk to each other.

We are-- I am-- I have spent a good portion of my last several weeks doing this, right? And we try to bring to light the things that people have been carrying that they need to put down. And sometimes this works awesome. What people actually needed was a mediator. What people actually needed was a safe space to vent their frustrations so that they could then talk about them in a more reasonable way without as much emotional turmoil.

Um, a lot of times those techniques work great, but there are some times when you are doing your darnedest to bring everything into balance, but the feelings you have inside you, you are not necessarily operating from a place of balance, and you are fearing [00:18:00] the chaos. Samael wants to tell us a couple of things.

There's a different way to look at this. What we could do instead is not remove ourself from the situation. That's what a lot of people do. Um, in the words of, and you're about to hear the worst Cartman impersonation ever from South Park. And everybody knows the phrase, "Screw you guys. I'm going home," right?

It's where the-- this is what a lot of childrens do. They-- their football and they storm off. I'm out, right? And what Samael is saying is that sometimes that picking up the football and storming out is is not giving us the best option. Instead, it's letting things that could, this opportunity for change, this [00:19:00] opportunity when we could be talking to each other, this opportunity for new things to manifest instead just becomes a bunch of people who don't like conflict and are afraid of chaos picking up their things and storming off into their separate corners, and the possibility for something beautiful dies.

The possibility for growth, the possibility for a new level of maturity, the possibility for further collaboration. And what he's saying instead of just being terrified of the chaos is to go, "Huh, what would happen, not if I did nothing and removed myself from the situation, but if I introduced A shifting.

If I took a step to the side so I was still present, [00:20:00] but I withdrew a little bit and let the chaos ride. What if I could step to the side and still be present so people in this scenario knew I was still here if they needed me, if when they were ready to reach out for help, but I didn't make myself the center of the eye of the storm?

I wasn't the person standing between the two people fighting going, "Everybody calm down. Everybody calm down." If instead I said, "Let's let the angels do their work." And when I get the 43 texts of people complaining about each other, I simply respond not with, "Could you please talk to the other person?" Or ba, da, ba, ba, or the 19th time that I have offered to help them mediate.

Instead, I need to say, [00:21:00] "I have implored them to stay. I have implored them to talk to the other people. I have let them know that they are loved and that I am here if they need help." What I am going to do now is when they respond, when they text me or social media me or call me on the phone or see me in person and they're still just going through it What if instead I let the situation, I let the chaos play out for a while?

I'm still standing on side with bandages if somebody goes down, but I'm not in the mix. I did this recently, and it was really interesting. After spending a tremendous amount of time and energy fearing the [00:22:00] chaos of the disagreements myself and trying to... What I thought was I was doing was helping everybody find balance.

I discovered instead that they were not ready for balance. They needed to live in the unstructured state for a while because it opened up to them in a way that I could never deliver through my words. It opened up to them. What does the future feel like if this relationship isn't there? Will I regret it?

Will I... Maybe it's time for that relationship to go or to recede for a while, right? It allowed them to see new vistas. And what came out of it that was so interesting was people who had hidden agendas revealed them within twenty-four hours. People who I thought were the, [00:23:00] quote-unquote, "victims" in the situation instead showed that they were not actually ready for reconciliation and needed to work through anger and a bunch of other repressed things that they'd had for a while.

And when I put out the possibility of, "You do what you need to do and just know that I love you, and if you need to step back to do what's best for you, there's that possibility. And I, I won't feel bad about it, about it for you. I would miss you, but you do what you need to do." And man, all of the stuff that I had been trying to control for multiple days that was sapping me dry, ev-everybody's cards got shown the minute that I let a little more [00:24:00] chaos in and instead focused my energies at balancing it within myself the yucky feelings that standing in proximity to chaos often bring.

I recognized that as a human in a human embodied form, I have negative feelings about chaos, and I needed to do things to make myself feel better, so I didn't feel sick and depleted But that in doing that, I was creating space among the disagreement that was happening near me, and boy, was it revealing 

Jennifer Taylor: Wow.

that is really, I think, a wonderful illustration of that point and the benefit of chaos. And there were a couple things that came to me when I was hearing you. One of them was how he was talking about, that chaos is not the lack of divine pattern, [00:25:00] it's just divine pattern that we aren't recognizing and we're not able to see as such.

And I was thinking about weeds and how, you know, people either look at weeds as, like, this horrible thing that has invaded their garden or invaded their yard and that kind of thing, or we look at them as, plants for which we have yet to discover a purpose or, plants that are just what we consider in the wrong place.

And that when you look at them and you look at what's growing, they actually provide a lot of information about what's wrong with the environment if they've come in. Like, you know, buttercups tend to come into land that has gotten really, really over-compacted, and it's so compacted that it needs the buttercups to come in and break up the soil.

And so they're often actually there serving a purpose that- Yes ... we just aren't recognizing. And if the conditions were exactly perfect for what we were trying to grow [00:26:00] there, most likely those things would proliferate and you wouldn't have these certain weeds.

But the weeds are coming in illuminating something that is out of balance, and it's actually bringing a lot of information if we take it in that way, and we take it in as information or embrace what's come in. And it could be, something really beneficial or it could be a plant that we actually really need in our lives or medicine that we really need.

but that, yeah, that was one of the things that, uh, I was thinking when he was saying. I was like, it's just that we're not recognizing it as the divine pattern that it is. 

Tava Baird: I love the idea you're talking about the buttercups, right? Like, you know, if we go out and we see a garden that we've worked really hard on to maintain order, that's tension, what we think of as balance, right?

Everything is balanced in my garden. Well, if buttercups are coming in, that's [00:27:00] challenging the idea of what we think of as balance, right? It's a challenge to it and we see it as an affront. Those have to get out of there, right? But sometimes the absolute best thing for the garden is to let the buttercups be there for a while, because there's something under the ground that you can't see.

And, and

I guess a balanced energy, it often feels like flow, and that makes our bodies happy. Whereas chaos energy, we can't predict it, and it often has... We feel, unsettled when chaos is around. But Samael's trying to tell us it's just a different energy. and it's not necessarily in the wrong place, even though our idea of balance tells us that it is, that we're looking at things that are symbiotic.

Um, [00:28:00] I know there's always those charts like chaotic good and chaotic evil, and you see them on the internet, like what personality type are you? But anywhere that chaos goes, there has to be a balance there as well, often that we're just not seeing. We don't have the perspective to see the pattern.

And with that chaos comes incredible possibility. and the idea of not going home with your football, but instead just putting the football down and standing there to see who comes to pick it up, and observing, is a whole different way of utilizing this energy, perhaps to the benefit and in way of many people, and in ways that you couldn't see.

Now, obviously you don't wanna be like, "My car's about to drive off a cliff. I think I'll just let the chaos go with this." You know, like- Do what you [00:29:00] can. Pick your h- Right? Use 

Jennifer Taylor: your good discernment and 

Tava Baird: judgment. And that's it. Use your discernment. Call in Michael for that discernment if you need it, right?

'Cause nobody is just as discerning as he. But yeah, sometimes when you're sitting there in the middle of the office fight with four people and you have offered to get everybody into a conference room, and you have offered to, listen to everybody, and you now realize that you are being depleted because your attempts to put balance out there for everyone, they're not ready for balance yet.

They need to have chaos work on them for a while. That's when you take the sick day and maybe don't answer those texts right away, and come back the next day and be present again and watch what happens when chaos was there for a day. Are you [00:30:00] perhaps enabling discord in your quest to not f- have an upset stomach when what really was needed was a dose of chaos?

Jennifer Taylor (2): Yeah. And one of the other, things that came to me when you were talking, and you were talking about, the way that you handled the situation, and it really sounded exactly like the way that we talk about holding the space of compassion. And I, I got this from Jonathan Goldman. again, not the sound healing Jonathan Goldman, but the, Essential Light Institute Jonathan Goldman, who wrote The Gift of the Body.

And he talks about the difference between compassion and empathy and sympathy, and it's absolutely brilliant. But he talks about that compassion is a space that [00:31:00] actually exists in our energy field. And I'm sure at some point probably in the first season I talked about this. But it exists in front of our heart chakra, and it is a space that we can actually activate, an energy we can genuinely activate within our energy field and hold that space of compassion.

And the way that he describes compassion is that it is a state where you are in complete acceptance and surrender to whatever needs to happen in the situation, and you are holding this, unconditional kind of love, field for all of those involved, for the entire situation. And you're completely detached from outcome or expectation or a need for anything to be fixed or different [00:32:00] or anything like that.

But in holding it, in holding that space of compassion, by activating that energy, you're more able to stay in that place. This place of, I am allowing their own... The, the individuals and the situation, I'm allowing them to be able to access their highest truth, their greatest, wisdom and discernment and the essence that is truly them.

And it opens up- The entire situation to a whole world of possibilities that can't exist without it. you're really just holding the space and allowing it all to function, but you're not... Uh, it's like you said, you're not going, you know, "Screw you guys, I'm going home."

You're not out of it. and you're also not controlling it, but by holding that space, [00:33:00] you're opening a place for a combination of, love and possibility to exist. And oftentimes, it actually helps and supports the people in accessing their greater wisdom, their inner knowledge, because we get out of the way.

And it reminds me also of the way that I advise people to practice Reiki, which is not to go into a situation deciding this is what we want the outcome to be, but to activate the Reiki, have it flowing, to and through the person or the situation, and asking for whatever is in the highest good of everyone involved.

And allowing the spiritual guidance aspect of Reiki to come through and- allow whatever needs to play out to play out and align things [00:34:00] along with, whatever is most aligned with that person's soul path as opposed to what we think. So by letting go of control, we open up to more possibilities because there are so many things that 

We don't know what's coming. We don't know what's really underneath all of it and what needs to play out, just like the situation that you were saying. You couldn't know the hidden agendas and the hidden feelings and all of those things. But by holding this supported space of I'm here and I'm holding this for you, but I'm not getting in the way and I'm not preventing your own learning and your own processes that you need to experience in order to really come through this, you allow so much more to come.

and I've never thought of holding the space of compassion as actually allowing a space for chaos, but [00:35:00] I really like that idea. it helps to reframe the idea of chaos because it's allowing whatever needs to happen for all the shifts and the revelations and the perspectives and all of those things.

It's allowing all of that shifting to happen, and the shifting is uncomfortable, and that's when we often want to go into control. But when we activate the space of compassion, we're better able to handle those feelings of the chaos, and it goes from feeling chaotic to, a choice and a held space. 

Jennifer Taylor: And I want to read Jonathan's explanation of compassion to help to frame it in a sense of an energy as opposed to the way that we tend to think of it as like, oh, being compassionate, like caring for someone else.

Mm-hmm. Um, but he talks about it in his book, The Gift of the Body, and in so many of the places about compassion being a [00:36:00] vibration and a quality of energy, not like, a metaphor for something or a philosophical concept, but that compassion is a vibration. It says, "The root from which compassion grows is divine love, and that love is the deepest substance in the universe and the base of everything that exists."

And he says, "Compassion does not seek to rule. It watches over what is presented in front of it. It does not judge. "It holds a space for the realization of truth. It does not seek to fix or to make anything different. Instead, it holds everything in a prayer for the manifestation of the highest good for all beings, whatever that is.

It is anchored in the calmness of the etheric body, and is vitalized by the faith in the mental [00:37:00] body. Through its link with faith and divine source, compassion knows that the trajectory of all beings is in the direction of the heart, of oneness, no matter what the separation looks like. And through its link with humility, compassion knows that each being is given free will.

It is up to each of us to make the choice for healing and light when and if we are ready. Compassion is not attached to any particular outcome. Its job is to hold the space for light to come in and work." Compassion is a universal force that macrocosmically surrounds everything, not just your heart.

It is responsible for the fact that there is so much variation in the universe, so many species, so many expressions of nature and on our planet, so many variations in human [00:38:00] expression. Compassion loves life itself and wants only what is full and joyful and that promotes the expression of life in all its forms.

The compassion of the divine is what is responsible for free will. In the small sense of human relationship, compassion is completely respectful of the choices another person makes, for it allows for the fact that everyone has their free will, their process, and their destiny, and the operative word here is allow.

To allow is not to be passive. Holding a space for compassion is an active, conscious, and in many instances, radical act. When compassion is held for us, we are free to be as we have always been, but because compassion literally changes the vibration of the space we are standing in, the [00:39:00] possibility of calling light to come and act upon our prayer for healing will occur to us.

Light is, first of all, always available, but particularly so when compassion sends out its vibratory beacon for it to hone in on. Compassion calls us to be completely present and engaged with our life and with those who come to us. What it teaches us is not to be identified with either our own or someone else's pain, to not join them in their pain, but instead hold a space for that person to choose their own path of healing.

Compassion is not easy to maintain in the face of suffering, but is the only way to be present in a world that contains so much pain and to be of use in that world. Embodying compassion allows us to see clearly and to [00:40:00] feel for those in pain. It doesn't do it to let us take on that pain. It is seemingly a paradox to know that we are all connected but that we are not responsible for each other's portion of pain, except to hold the space of compassion for its potential transformation.

The paradox is resolved when we can feel the vibration of compassion that resides in our emotional body. That feeling is the teacher of another way to be present and detached at the same time." 

Tava Baird: That's lovely, and completely on topic with what we're talking about.

Jennifer Taylor: Isn't it amazing? 

Tava Baird: That's really lovely, very lovely. 

Jennifer Taylor: I, I love him, and if you resonate with these messages, if you go onto I think it's essentiallight.org maybe. Mm-hmm. I will put a links in this. Yeah, I 

Tava Baird: was 

Jennifer Taylor: gonna say- Um ... 'cause 

Tava Baird: people might wanna get some of the books or 

Jennifer Taylor: that sort of thing.

Yeah, um, [00:41:00] Jonathan Goldman has a lot of teaching and He channels a being called White Eagle, and He has a whole library of videos and, um, I believe writings on his website too, and offers a number of like free types of things, and is working on his second book.

The Gift of the Body is actually what I took this from. I actually took a bunch of different blurbs where he talked about compassion and put it together to make that. Um, but that's in his book, The Gift of the Body, and he's actually currently working on writing the follow-up to this, which is a real like how-to about all of the information that he has in the first book.

So I really- Lovely ... look forward to that, and he is an amazing human being, an amazing teacher, and an amazing energy healer. 

Tava Baird: That's amazing. 

Jennifer Taylor (2): And I'm thinking actually- Maybe I'll just [00:42:00] describe how you can do that energetically. it works, best if you can first ground and open. So if you imagine, just taking a moment. If you're driving, obviously don't do this part. but you can close your eyes and imagine going into the very center of your chest, where that, I've talked about there being the, central channel that's going down through the top of your head, down just in front of your spine, all the way through your body and down and out of your perineum.

If you imagine kind of tapping into that right around in the center where your heart chakra is, the center of your chest, and think of it kind of like an elevator. And you're going to take your consciousness and get in that elevator and imagine going down the elevator, down through your body, down and out the perineum, down, down, and down into the earth.

And it may need to go through many [00:43:00] layers of building or foundation or whatever it is, but it just keeps going until it's down, down into the center of the earth. And we can imagine the center of the earth as like a crystal, and just imagine that we kind of tap into that and it activates and lights up.

And then it sort of shoots up our elevator and us back up through that tube, back up through our central channel, and up and out through the top of our head and up into the stratosphere, all the way up to the very source of creation. And that gets activated and we come back down, down into the center of our chest again.

And we can imagine stepping out of that elevator and into the center of our chest. And then imagine walking [00:44:00]out onto a balcony with the door being right in the front of your, chest And just open that up and step out onto a balcony with this beautiful, beautiful view

And maybe that balcony has a little bit of a walkway that extends beyond it, and so you walk out a little bit further and just radiate all of the light that you've accessed from your central channel from going down into the Earth and up into source And imagine just really expanding this space, like you're glowing with light and it just expands and expands and expands And [00:45:00] this is the space of compassion 

Still allow that space to be illuminated, but bring your awareness back into your body, into where you could open your eyes again. And imagine holding that space of compassion filled with light as though it were a beach ball that's inflated between your hands in front of your chest And so you can actually take your hands and imagine holding this beach ball, and that is the space of compassion.

And see if you can actually feel into the energy. When I do that, I tend to have almost like a little bit of a pulling energy from the center of the front of my chest. It's almost like there's something kind of tugging a little bit there. And try to become aware [00:46:00] of that space maybe six, eight inches off of your front of your chest, and just hold it.

Actually physically hold it with your hands and breathe. So it's like you're holding a beach ball with both hands out in front. You're holding it on either side of the ball And this is the space of compassion that is now activated. So you're grounded on Earth, you're receiving light, you're centered in the heart, and you're holding the space of compassion.

And see how you may feel different right now than you did maybe several minutes ago before we started For me, there's a greater sense of stillness. It's like my whole body becomes [00:47:00] more still and peaceful, and my mind becomes... Like, the, the thoughts slow, and the intensity of everything seems to be turned down several notches And so when I'm in a difficult conversation or I see one coming, I do a quick grounded on Earth, receiving light, centered in the heart, step forward into the space of compassion, and I imagine holding it.

A lot of times with my hands under the table, I'll actually act like I'm kind of cradling a giant beach ball under the table with my hands resting on my legs, and just hold that space. And sometimes it helps to even imagine kind of stepping back a little bit and seeing yourself holding that space of compassion.

And from that [00:48:00] space, it's amazing how the energy of that... Like, that's something you don't have to be attuned to anything, you don't need Reiki, you don't need to have any other skills, but know that you have this space of compassion that already exists in your energy field that you can activate, and you can activate it and utilize it absolutely any time.

But when you do that, it supports you in being able to step to the side and allow. And it's amazing how you'll notice that your responses in the conversation are much more rational, much more objective, and stepping back and allowing the other person to have whatever feelings they have and be like, you know, "I hear you.

I'm, I'm sorry that you feel that way. This is my perspective." You know, all of a sudden you're not in there wrestling around with it. [00:49:00] You can be holding a very different kind of space. 

Tava Baird: Thank you so much for doing that. I think it's an incredible skill, an incredible visualization for people to realize that they have.

it really moves you from, especially if you are trying to mediate between multiple people, it returns you to a state where you are the model of how to behave, not the referee in their conflict. And I think it's really easy when you start off as the model and you're trying to be a sympathetic ear for people to very quickly get pulled into the place where you are the referee, where you are in the pool with the two drowning people going, "Wait, wait, wait, we have water wings," and no one is listening.

Whereas if you are stepping to the side And modeling compassion and modeling confidence that, you know, [00:50:00] in the end, no matter what comes out of it, people are gonna... They're gonna be... It's gonna be okay, right? There's that phrase, uh, "It'll be okay in the end, and if it's not okay, it's not the end." I love that.

Um, the... So that was one thing that came up. Another thing that, um, I, I saw this quote the other day, and it reminded me of what you were saying. "Anxiety and gratitude can't exist in the same space at the same time." And I was like, "Of course it can. I'm grateful for lots of things when I'm anxious." But if it's true gratitude, it is very hard for anxiety to take root in that place.

and compassion is very much rooted in gratitude, right? If you are l- looking at someone and you think, "I [00:51:00]cannot find compassion for this person right now. They ate my Kit Kat bar one too many times," you know? But if you can stop and think about what you are grateful for in them, that opens the door to be able to think about them in a compassionate way and to want to hold space for them compassionately.

You know, "Well, he ate the Kit Kat bar for the third time. At least now I don't have to diet off those calories, I guess." You know? Like if there's something you can find or, "Oh, this person is an absolute nightmare," look at what we're learning about ourselves for an... and from having to deal with them. You know, something.

Um, that c- that gratitude really can help open the door. and this also brought me to a- another thing that I hadn't thought before. [00:52:00] So Samael's talked to us about chaos angels Right? We've talked about chaos angels before. With this new definition of chaos, it means that a chaos angel, which is an area where energies are overlapping rapidly, and it feels extremely chaotic and dangerous to us, and we move farther away, it doesn't mean that that chaos angel has no divine pattern.

It's just holds a pattern that is not yet able to be navigated by us Which gives hope. It gives possibility that someday we will be able to navigate it, or it will return to a state where we can navigate it and walk through it. And I think about what Samael says. He says, "Sometimes for [00:53:00] chaos angels, if you..."

And he always specified, "If you are in a human body and it is too dangerous for you to handle without getting swept in, you call in guides. You call in your guides." And that makes sense because there are things that Michael and Samael can navigate that, who don't have bodies, that we can't because of our natural aversion to the way that the energy of chaos feels to us.

They can see divine pattern on a grander scale than our current perspective, right? So calling in guides and saying, "This is something I cannot navigate. This is ... I know there's pattern here, but I can't yet see it. Please come be by my side." Help whoever might be being [00:54:00] sucked into that chaos angel or who might be the center of it right now.

Call in these divine guides, and they can help navigate hopefully. And if you think about the way that you dealt with chaos angels, Jenn, there was a tremendous amount of that in it. Call in the guides, right? And i- and I, I don't think I really understood yet there is pattern there. There is pattern. It's just one we often can't fathom in the moment.

We can't ... It's not that it's unable to be navigated. It's that we can't yet navigate it all the way through. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. I l- I like the idea that the chaos angel, especially when a person has become a chaos angel, that, yeah, that it's not that there's not divine pattern, and that there's a [00:55:00] lot of potential- 

Yes

in that as well. That chaos holds such potential that, there is a great potential there still and a lot of reason for hope as well. 

Tava Baird: It is the possibility before a manifestation. And so while being near a chaotic state Feels discordant in our body. We are simply looking at a different version of energy and power than what often feels, you know, balance feels like flow.

Chaos is necessary for balance to exist. And in areas where it is concentrated, we call in our guides. We recognize that underneath whatever is in front of us, there is [00:56:00] divine pattern, and we don't give up. 

Jennifer Taylor (2): Yeah Yeah. And I think, you know, when I think about other times that we've talked about chaos where, you know, when we look at cymatics, which is the, sound made visible where they've, you know, placed a bunch of, really fine sand or powder onto a, metal plate, and then hooked up frequencies to it, like a wire that basically sends in different tones, like different notes.

There's that, and you slowly turn it up so you don't go from, like, one note jumped to the next note, but you go like, whoa, like that. in between hitting the major notes, it goes from just this all of it just bouncing around in no ordered form that looks like to us, it just looks like it's just bouncing around all in a pile, [00:57:00] to then it hits a note, and all of a sudden, all of the little shavings or all the little grains of things snap into forming a geometric pattern.

And then you keep turning it up, and it all reverts back to being mixed up all over the place, and then it hits the next note, and it snaps into another pattern that is more complex than the one before it. And it continues as you go all the way up. And we talk about how chaos is that space in between when it goes- Yes

from holding that pattern to all of it being mixed up again. But it has to get mixed up again in order for it to form that new shape. Mm-hmm. And that as we go through growth periods and periods of evolution, within ourselves individually and collectively, we go through those periods where it feels like chaos.

And it's really unsettling because it's like all of a sudden everything that we know, [00:58:00] everything seems like it's been shaken up, but those are the times out of which comes the next big platform, the next geometry that's more complex and we can go, "Oh, wow. Oh, look, okay." Yeah.

"Now everything's settled again, and this is where I am." so looking at that too, I love the idea that when the grains of sand or all of those things mix back in, that's all a pattern. It's a pattern of change. It's like- Yes ... this needs to switch to this, needs to switch to this, needs to switch to that.

Tava Baird: You have to have this movement. You have to have that. And that is chaos.

So it's just giving us a slightly different version of chaos. we walk around in life, and people go, "How's your life?" And people go, "Uh, everything's chaos. I'm moving, and I'm, you know, I can't find anything." It's not that all of your possessions won't end up in a new home with the dishes in the, pantry and your [00:59:00] clothes in the dresser.

That chaos is the movement towards the possibility of your new life in that new home where things haven't yet come to rest. but in that movement, think of all the possibility of what your new dwelling will become. And we see that with people too. We all go through periods of chaos and sort of settling, of balance and change.

Um, what was it that Samael said when he was talking about Heliel? He said, that the angel Heliel loves humans because we are in a constant state of becoming. we're never stagnant. We may pause. We may rest. We may come into balance during our dance. But then ultimately, we fling ourselves back out of it with a shake of our hips or a motion of our arms, and let the [01:00:00] magic come through before we pull ourselves back to center again.

So- You know, we're just looking at a different form of energy that affects us differently. Perhaps if we can become a little more comfortable with it, if we can realize the necessity of it, if we don't see it as always something to be feared, but instead simply a state that is not understood or sought out by many, then we have it at our disposal to create incredible change 

Jennifer Taylor: Absolutely.

I love the idea of reframing chaos as possibility. 

Tava Baird: Yeah. Yeah. 

Jennifer Taylor: So with Samael's advice then coming into the time of the solstice, it sounds like, you know, one of our options could be [01:01:00] choosing to step to the side and calling in our guides and asking for them to lead the way and, help to direct us across this threshold and just sit back and allow whatever needs to shift and change, and see whatever chaos seems to ensue as possibility and potential, and hold the space of compassion for ourselves as we go through that with the faith and hope and knowledge that we're going to come out the other side.

And things are likely to reform in a more solid and, a more truly aligned with our soul's path kind of form to move forward in. 

Tava Baird: Yeah. Chaos may be the opening of roads in an [01:02:00] unconventional way to break down barriers that we, that no longer serve us if we let a little bit more of it in.

And, and watch and observe, and hold faith and space in our hearts, and operate from a place of gratitude and compassion. If we try to become the model, not the referee. If we try not to control everything. Sometimes a door that was, that we never thought was there opens up in the wall. 

Jennifer Taylor: Absolutely. 

Tava Baird: Ah. Well, I think it's probably about time for us to wrap things up here. We have a lot of stuff to think about. 

Jennifer Taylor: Um- Absolutely ... 

Tava Baird: we have one more song for the road, Jenn?

Jennifer Taylor: Sure. 

Tava Baird: Let's, uh- Before we walk off on our compassionate and chaotic ways. 

Jennifer Taylor: Exactly. Let's see what Michael has for us. [01:03:00]

Tava Baird: Thank you.

Jennifer Taylor: [01:04:00] [01:05:00] [01:06:00] [01:07:00] Ooh, 

Tava Baird: that was- That was lovely. Oh, and how did that feel? 

Jennifer Taylor: it's interesting. There was... The, the first one, which I may end up editing out, felt like I was trying to actually [01:08:00] maintain balance during chaos. It's like my hands were making chaos, and I was supposed to be singing something else. But I was hearing a beat that I couldn't manage to figure out how I would do with...

I don't even know what those little instrument things are called. And then I was like, "All right. I'm gonna try again." But when I stopped that first one, there was so much energy in the silence. Like, my whole... All this energy was going up my spine, and it was just buzzing around me to where I wasn't sure exactly how much was happening with...

Uh, and I guess I was trying to concentrate so hard, but when I stopped, the energy in that silence was massive. 

Tava Baird: Yeah. 

Jennifer Taylor: Okay. Well, maybe I'll try it again. I'm getting a sense of maybe how to do what I think I was supposed to do originally. So I did another version, that again, when I stopped though, I was like, [01:09:00] "Whoa."

The, the energy in that silence was incredible 

Tava Baird: Cool stuff, Matt. I do have a few closing notes from a certain seraphim, so here we go "The solstice then, friend, the solstice. Another threshold. An opportunity to pause, an opportunity to reflect, an opportunity to shift into the next season. An opportunity to move under the moon and the stars, oscillating between balance and chaos, dancing from note to note, from hunger to satisfaction.

And an opportunity to hold compassion not only for others, but for all the selves you have been and may yet become. What space must be made at this time [01:10:00] for the next incarnation of your incarnation? Whatever it is, know that we hold your being in our embrace. "

Jennifer Taylor: Oh, that's beautiful. It's a 

Tava Baird: nice little vote of you're not going it alone, friends.

It's always a good thing to hear when we let new things in the door. 

Jennifer Taylor: Absolutely. 

Tava Baird: thank you so much everybody for tuning in again.

We greatly appreciate it, and we hope you have an absolutely wonderful week. 

Jennifer Taylor: Many blessings to all of you. 

Tava Baird: Many blessings