Part 2: Reflection, Relationship & Reciprocity

Reflection, Relationship & Reciprocity

Black Mirrors, Living Symbols & the Ways We Shape One Another

In This Episode

What begins with hag stones, black mirrors, and the ancient practice of scrying gradually opens into something far less expected. As Jennifer Taylor and Tava Baird follow the threads of folklore, history, and lived spiritual experience, familiar ideas begin to shift, inviting us to look beyond appearances toward the relationships that quietly shape our lives. Along the way, symbols emerge, old stories are revisited, and simple questions reveal surprising depth.

Rather than offering conclusions, this conversation lingers in exploration. Reflections on sacred geometry, direct spiritual experience, and some of humanity's oldest stories invite us to remain curious, to practice discernment, and to discover what becomes possible when we approach both the seen and unseen worlds with openness, reverence, and a willingness to keep listening.

Journey Through This Episode

• 0:00 — Replay of the ceremonial transmission The Hunger of the Soul
• 11:36 — Hag stones, fairy stones, and ancient portals
• 13:00 — John Dee, Edward Kelley, and the mysteries of the black mirror
• 18:00 — Black mirrors, discernment, and entering sacred practice with intention
• 23:00 — Spiritual boundaries and the importance of discernment
• 27:00 — Angelic languages and the story of Enochian
• 30:00 — Revisiting the winged symbol and preserving received symbols
• 35:00 — Following the thread after an unexpected transmission
• 37:00 — Relationship, aspects, and the ways beings shape one another
• 42:00 — The Flower of Life and reflections on interconnectedness
• 44:00 — Michael, Samael, Lilith, and relationship
• 49:00 — Reflection, relationship, and reciprocity
• 51:45 — Closing musical transmission
• 55:37 — A return to the Garden

Musical Transmissions

The Hunger of the Soul (Replay)

0:14–11:36

Originally received in the previous episode, this ceremonial transmission opens today's conversation by inviting listeners back into the longing to remember our living relationship with the Earth.

Closing Musical Transmission 

51:45–55:37

A transmission that breaks through the illusion of division, helping us to merge more fully with the divine in all its aspects. Honoring the earth, and all divine beings, in reciprocal, symbiotic relationship.For Your Journey

Mentioned in this episode...

Historical Figures & Traditions

• John Dee
• Edward Kelley
• Enochian language
• Hag stones (also known as fairy stones or witch stones)
• Black mirrors and scrying traditions
• The British Museum's Aztec obsidian mirror

Symbols & Sacred Geometry

• The Flower of Life
• The winged symbol from the previous episode
• Michael–Samael sigil

Practices

• Black mirror scrying
• Pendulum discernment
• Working with intention and spiritual boundaries

Continuing Threads

• Reflection
• Relationship
• Reciprocity
• Discernment
• Living symbols
• Sacred story
• The Garden of Eden

Continue Exploring

With Jennifer

If this conversation resonated with you, you may enjoy continuing the journey through:

• Private Soul Resonance Sessions https://www.amnivara.com/soul-resonance-sessions
• Reiki Training https://www.willowridgereiki.com/reiki-training-overview
• The Power of Story Project https://www.amnivara.com/the-power-of-story-project
• Mystic Fire Gathering - Angel Path with Tava and Keith https://www.mysticfire.org/path/angel
• Amnivara Music & Transmissions https://amnivara.bandcamp.com/

With Tava

Continue exploring Tava's work through:

• Books, Markets, Workshops and more: https://www.tavabaird.com/books
• Etsy Shop - prints, haunted dolls and more https://darkflowerbooks.etsy.com/
• Bone Readings and Spiritual Consultations Etsy or website  

Please remember this podcast is for inspiration, reflection, and entertainment only, and is not medical, psychological, or professional advice.

We are two friends sharing personal experiences and evolving perspectives as we learn and grow. This is not a substitute for your own discernment, inner wisdom, or qualified professional guidance.

Take what resonates, trust your intuition, and seek licensed support when needed, always honoring your own inner knowing and personal truth.

Thank you joining us today, you are a valued member of our tribe!  If you are enjoying the podcast, please consider telling your friends and sharing it on social media.  We would greatly appreciate your support in helping us reach others and spread our messages of worth, openness and exploration. 

Connect with your Hosts!

Tava Baird:   tavabaird.com or https://darkflowerbooks.etsy.com.

Jennifer Taylor:  Amnivara (previously Willow Ridge Reiki and Healing Arts)           https://www.Amnivara.com/

Transcript

S4Ep14 Part 2 Reflection, Relationship & Reciprocity

Jennifer Taylor: [00:00:00] THANK YOU for joining us again this week. We will begin with a replay of the song that started it all last week and then pick up right where we left off. If you don't want to hear it again just skip forward about 11 minutes. [Replay of transmission Hunger of the Soul ]

BAIRD BAIRD: As we're talking about currents and stones, my mind is also brought back to, something else you find on Irish and Scottish beaches, and actually in lots of places in the world, which are, stones that have holes bored in them by water over time. And they're often called hag [00:12:00] stones or witch stones, and a lot of people-- They're supposed to be good luck, right?

They're supposed to be protective, and a lot of people wear them around their necks or use them as ornaments. But one of the other stories about them that I love, and the reason it's coming back to me is because you were talking about Aztec black mirrors earlier. it's said in Ireland that if you hold up one of those hag stones or fairy stones, that it is actually a portal or a gate, and if you look through it, you can see into fairy.

And you actually gifted me several a few years ago. but what's also interesting is we were talking about the magic Central and South America earlier, and the Aztecs used black mirrors to [00:13:00] scry into, right? And those black mirrors were thought to be a gate or doorway into seeing alternate worlds, much like a hag stone is, right?

as a matter of fact, not to bring this back around to angels, but we always do

and I probably brought this up on the podcast before, but sorry guys, tough, 'cause it fits here. In the British Museum, there is a black Aztec mirror of polished obsidian, and it belonged to the magician John 

Speaker 3: Dee. 

BAIRD BAIRD: He was an advisor and court magician for, I believe it was Elizabeth I. And John Dee did some interesting stuff.

I suddenly-- the name of his assistant, who is also a very famous magician, is [00:14:00] escaping me. I apologize. If we look this up, it'll come right back to me. Hang on.

John Dee, astronomer, teacher, astrologer, occultist, and alchemist He was, he lived from 1527 to either 1608 or 1609. He was an English mathematician, astronomer, teacher, astrologer, occultist, and alchemist. He was the court astronomer for and advisor to Elizabeth I. He also spent a lot of time on Hermetic philosophy.

He had one of the largest libraries in England he eventually left her service and went on a quest for knowledge of the occult and supernatural. It's really interesting. This article says, "He aligned himself with several individuals who may have been charlatans." Oh, he absolutely did. Um, 

I'm looking for the name of his assistant. Edward Kelley. [00:15:00] There it is. Okay. So I actually write about John Dee and Edward Kelley in my novels because at one point, Adamina Scott starts asking the magician, "How many names have you traveled under while you were here on Earth?" You know, he's a fae magician.

And she says something like, "Were you Edward Kelley?" And he's like, "Absolutely not, that charlatan." And then she's like, "Were you John Dee?" And he's like, "Yeah maybe." Like- ... I can't remember which one of them I had him being, but might bring it up. So John Dee has this mirror, this Aztec mirror, and he starts asking his assistant, Edward Kelley, to scry into it.

And Edward Kelley starts bringing through a metric ton of information, including three magical [00:16:00] alphabets, and John Dee becomes convinced that they are speaking to an angel. And actually, for those of you who love magical alphabets, you've probably heard of at least two of them. One is called Celestial. I actually have Samael's name in Celestial tattooed on me.

Um, another one is called Passing the River and I forget what the third one is. But they're considered angelic alphabets in the magical community. What a lot of people don't know is that, so John Dee wasn't doing the scrying, he was making Edward Kelley do it, right? John Dee was like, "We are talking to an angel," and Edward Kelley, who was actually in direct contact with this entity, became convinced that they were not, in fact, speaking to an angel, and begged John Dee to allow him to stop.

But John Dee basically went, "Nope." 

Speaker 5: [00:17:00] Jeez. 

BAIRD BAIRD: Yeah. But this mirror that was used for communication is in the possession of the British Museum, and you can go visit it when it's on display. And it was, it w- he somehow or another got an Aztec obsidian polished black mirror And it is probably the most famous of its kind 

Jennifer Taylor: That's really interesting.

So what does Samael say about these alphabets? 

BAIRD BAIRD: I haven't sat down and talked to him about it, believe it or not. it's something that, like, I was aware of this sort of from history, and because I love black mirrors. I make my own. You can make black mirrors because, the obsidian ones are insanely expensive and very, very heavy. and there are lots of places that sell them, and I'll tell you right now how to make one. But I will also tell you that lots of people have very strong [00:18:00] interactions through black mirrors, and a lot of them just have a straight up aversion to it.

When I do bring them to events, or I have brought them to markets before as well, I keep cloth over them. I keep them covered because they are said to be gateways where you can look into another world, but they can also look back, right? And there are an awful lot of people who walk into my fair booth, see black mirrors on display, go, "Nope," and turn around and just leave because they've either had such a strong experience with one or they're just wary of them.

if it isn't the black mirrors that make them nope out, it's the haunted dolls, but I digress. There are two big reasons to nope out if, uh... Although just as many people come in and go, "I can never find these." Black mirror is basically made by [00:19:00] creating a dark reflective surface. So if you've ever sat in front of your TV at night when it is off, and it's reflecting the room, you basically can use that television screen as a black mirror.

I know they say don't put TVs in your bedrooms because, like, you'll stay up too late watching TV. I also say the secondary reason is how many of you cover that television, and you might be creating a little doorway somewhere. Also, looking at a darkened window when it is night outside, and you are inside a room with lights will often create a black mirror effect.

What the black mirror essentially does is it's reflecting your reality, but it does it in a distorted way And so for example, I have a Lilithian black mirror protection invocation that whenever somebody purchases a black [00:20:00] mirror from me or makes their own, I go, "Take this." Because you definitely you are basically opening the door and going, "Hey, who in another reality wants to talk?"

And just like you wouldn't walk out into a crowded street in a foreign city and put yourself at the mercy of strangers, you need to be protected. And I often run classes that have, black mirrors in them, and I keep a very careful watch on people who are new to the practice. But essentially, what I do when I make them is you take like a picture frame And you take the glass out, and you remove any picture that's there, and you paint the back of the glass black.

And then I also put, like, black silk or black felt or something behind it to create a truly dark surface. I also have a lovely secret mixture that I mix [00:21:00] in with my paint that has to do with ashes and a bunch of other lovely things for blessing and protection. and then what most people do is set it up in a dark room.

Actually, if you've read The Ballad of Bertie MacLeod, they make a d- black mirror on board a ship in that book. And then people will put candles or some sort of flickering light source on either side of them as they look into the mirror. And like I said, use your protection. With the combination of the distortion of the reflection, looking into a mirror, which over time can also create distortions in your perception, and the effect of the flickering lights in the darkened room, essentially open up a liminal space where you can journey.

But people have, can have very strong reactions. I have had people who [00:22:00] borrowed a mirror from me at events and went to work with it, and then came back and were like, "I need to keep this mirror in my practice." Like, "This is mine now." And I was like, "Great." And, so it's a fascinating... Black mirrors, by the way, have been used in many cultures.

We have some documentation of the ancient Celts using them, of, the Chinese using them. So it's not just the Aztecs. We see it in different cultures around the world. And, it's a pretty fascinating... You know, um, scrying into bodies of water at night may also give a similar black mirror effect, and we have tons and tons and tons of lore about doing that as well 

Jennifer Taylor: Is there any kind of particular...

'Cause I, I know like for example, when using like a pendulum y- you can set, or I'd, I've always [00:23:00] very specifically set who can come through and who cannot, and- Yes ... um, that kind of thing. Can you do the same sort of thing with the black mirror where it's like- Absolutely ... I'm only going to speak with people with energies that are in alignment with my highest good or, you know- Absolutely

ask Archangel Michael or Samael or somebody to filter and choose. 'Cause I, I'm always, you know, with Archangel Michael, I'm always asking him to- Right ... kind of filter and only allow into the space that I'm working or the pendulum. It's like him or someone that he allows to come through- Right

because it's in the highest good, and it may be the highest good of my learning to have a certain kind of experience. So it still may not be pleasant, but I know that I'm, it's safe and held, and, somebody knows very clearly who should be there or not. 

BAIRD BAIRD: Right. Absolutely with any magical practice or divinatory [00:24:00] or you know, walking into a, a liminal space practice, call in your guides, set up your protections.

You know, with me, I have a Lilithian invocation. There, it is rumored that certain types of entities are especially attracted to black mirrors, and the two that I have seen mentioned the most in my research are the dead and the fae. That apparently the fae, who have to be handled very carefully are super interested a lot of times in talking through black mirrors.

so You know, and if you have another way that you're already talking to, like if, if you're already using your pendulum to talk to who you wanna talk to, great. But if you wanted to try something different, then, a black mirror is a very powerful way to do that. But absolutely please set your [00:25:00] intentions.

I know for a fact, you know, I don't know how much Edward Kelley and John Dee knew about the Aztec practices that went with that mirror that they got. Maybe they- Yeah, probably very little ... maybe they did or maybe they didn't. Probably very little. They probably just went, "Hey, this is a cool piece of magical equipment that I hear is amazing," but we have to look at where did that obsidian come from?

Well, it came from across the world. It came from an Aztec culture. Were they talking to an angel? Maybe, but they also may have been talking to an Aztec god, and were they respectful as gentleman magicians in Queen Elizabeth's court in the 15 and 1600s? Were they understanding exactly of what they were dealing with?

And it certainly sounds like Edward Kelley did not think so. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. Um- And how they came by that. You know, that was taken clearly from its original place where it was [00:26:00] used probably- Yeah ... for hundreds of years by people who had a very sacred connection with it, and then taken somewhere to be used as opposed to- Yeah, we don't know

working in, you know, maybe in respectful relationship and right relationship with it. So, you know- Yeah, we have to look- ... that can certainly change what was coming through based on, how they came by it- Right ... whether they really had a, I won't almost say a right, but, whether they were in right relationship by even using it 

BAIRD BAIRD: Yeah, we don't know.

I don't know how it came into his possession. I mean, y- if you are the court astrologer for Queen Elizabeth I, you've got some clout, and probably quite a bit of money as well. Yeah. So who knows how it came into his being. I mean, I don't know if he was a well-traveled man, but considering it was the 1500s, I highly doubt he went, over and visited the Aztec cultures himself.

and if he did, it would've been as a [00:27:00] colonialist and probably not in a symbiotic relationship. So, who knows what got sent over on that. Interestingly enough, the magical alphabets are gorgeous. They are beautiful. And I'm sitting here right now trying to remember the third one. Let me look up Passing the River or Crossing.

I think it's Passing the River. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah, I was thinking especially since those- came through that black mirror. Yeah, I would love to, I would love- Yeah ... to know. And I'm willing to sing for it if, Oh, no, I'm s- ... if Samael would like to comment on the, 

BAIRD BAIRD: I'm sorry ... on the angelic Those... I was wrong.

Those alphabets were not John Dee. I was misremembering. They are 

Enochian. Sorry. That's why. So it's pl- named after Enoch. That, I'm getting different alphabets that are named after [00:28:00] angels confused. Okay. So folks, to sum up, the Passing the River, Malachim, and Celestial were by Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa who I'm sure you've heard of, the philosopher, right? And scientist.

Enochian is the occult-constructed languages. Here we go. I'm just, I'm sorry I'm using Wikipedia. Here we go. "Enochian is an occult-constructed language said by its originators to have been received from angels, recorded in the private journals of John Dee and his colleague Edward Kelly in the late 16th century England.

Kelly was a scryer who worked with Dee in his magical investigations. The language is integral to the practice of Enochian magic." Sorry, folks. Senior moment. Got my angelic languages confused from the 15th century. Um, and there's a bit more about it. oh, [00:29:00] here's why. "Dee's journals also refer to this language as 'Celestial Speech,' 'First Language of God/Christ,' 'Holy Language,' or 'Language of Angels.'

He also referred to it as 'Adamical,'" spelled like Adam, A-D-A-M, "because according to Dee's angels, it was used by Adam in paradise to name all things. The term Enochian comes from Dee's assertation in the biblical patriarch Enoch, when John Dee believed, uh, had been, that Enoch," which we know has ties to Metatron, "had been the last human before Dee and Kelly to know the language."

Sorry, I got celestial and celestial confused. There will be a public flogging of Tava Baird- ... by the listeners of this podcast at a place to be determined by you. 

Jennifer Taylor: You are allowed to make mistakes just like the rest of us. [00:30:00]

BAIRD BAIRD: Okay, good. Ah. I got Enochian- Oh ... mixed up with celestial. My bad. 

Jennifer Taylor: Goodness. There is so much.

My brain is oozing out of my ears. I'm trying to remember the original words that he had said, and I'm thinking again about that image. I'm really interested in that image that you drew, and I realize I don't think we've really, we haven't done any kind of much description for the people that, 'cause nobody's gonna be able to see it because it's not gonna be- Yeah

on YouTube forever. So the image that Tava drew, there's a big, long vertical line with an eye at the very top. At the very bottom, there's a line across the bottom that sort of seems like a stand. And then just up from the [00:31:00] stand a little ways up, There's a place where two wings are kind of connected to that center line, and they go up and out, and they go out, pretty far, and then up to where the top of the wings on either side are just about level with the bottom of the eye at the top.

But in the space between the wings is a diamond shape that is an equilateral kind of diamond with a line going across connecting the two outer points, which creates an equal-armed cross. So there's really, a square turned at an angle like a diamond that has an equal-armed cross in it, but that line continues down between the wings and has the base, and then the bottom of the eye touches the top point of the diamond.

So I don't know- You know what I- ... if that's any more clear at all. You, 

BAIRD BAIRD: there are so many [00:32:00] episodes where- one of us, one or or both of us are showing things that we've drawn, and we're trying to explain it to people.

Jennifer Taylor: And, uh- Right ... and we hadn't been able to figure out how we could link a picture to things. And so I think that would be, great. 

BAIRD BAIRD: And we could create one long blog post with photographs, we could put in, "This is the Samael and Michael sigil we got. This is the illustration that came through on the, July 14th podcast.

This is the picture that Jenn got." And I could just add to that post over time, and we could just use that same link every time, and they could just go, "Boop. Okay, there's the picture I'm looking for."

Jennifer Taylor: So- Yeah, that would be great- Yeah ... 'cause there are so many now- Yeah

where I'm looking at them, like- I'm 

BAIRD BAIRD: starting to realize ... 

Jennifer Taylor: we're all re-describing so many different things. 

BAIRD BAIRD: Yeah, 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah, we could just list it as episode- Yeah ... whatever, drawing of such and such, and- 

BAIRD BAIRD: Here we go, episode this, drawing, and I can even put up things there, like I can put up [00:33:00] the text there of the Lilithian invocation for when you're using a black mirror and you want protection.

And you can use that invocation for a lot of things. You know, I also have an image, and there are prints of it that will probably go up in the Etsy shop tonight, but it is an illustration of an invocation to the eight day teachers when you are traveling outside of your body. So having, being able to see that so that you could read it if you needed it might be a good thing, too.

So, I could pop that image up there. Yeah, I'll create a space on the website I should be able to do that tonight, for our images, and then people can pop on there. Um- 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah, that 

BAIRD BAIRD: would 

Jennifer Taylor: be great. 

BAIRD BAIRD: Yeah, that would be really good. Yeah, I mean, it's really funny. You've heard of lions and tigers and bears, oh my.

I feel like this episode is stones and snakes and gardens, oh my.

Jennifer Taylor: Boy, [00:34:00] and I don't have any idea how long that thing I was doing was, but it was long because I- It- ... I, I was, uh, f- at one point I was like, "Okay, we really... Like Michael, can you maybe explain to her about podcasts? And this needs to be short." And I don't remember what her response was, but it was very clear that it was like, "You don't tell me how long this is."

Right. And I was like, "Okay, got it. I can, we can always edit, maybe this become something else." But yeah, who am I to decide that like, you know, we really need to keep it within a reasonable amount of time. It was like, we're doing something important here. you don't tell me that I need to wrap it up.

I 

BAIRD BAIRD: am speaking. Yeah. Like- I 

Jennifer Taylor: was like, "Oh, 

BAIRD BAIRD: yeah ... Goddess is speaking ... 

Jennifer Taylor: sorry 

BAIRD BAIRD: about 

Jennifer Taylor: that. Um- 

BAIRD BAIRD: Yeah. It's sort of like me yesterday going, "Samael, you want me to do what?" And him going, "This is what happens." You know? Like he ha- Yeah ... with him having, you know, having me pass on about half my bone kit. [00:35:00] I was like, "How am I supposed to read?"

And he's like, "It needs to be done. She's better at it than you are." 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. Um- I definitely got... There was definitely a sense of being called down a bit. It was like- Yes ... yeah, that's not how this works." Yes. She- I'm like, "

BAIRD BAIRD: This isn't-" Human, I see farther than you do. Yes, exactly. 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. I was like, "

BAIRD BAIRD: Sorry." 

Jennifer Taylor: Um, 

BAIRD BAIRD: speaking of which, it might be time for another song I'm thinking.

Jennifer Taylor: I think it is. Lord, help us.

BAIRD BAIRD: I know. I'm like- Ooh ... maybe we'll just put the notebook aside. No, that's not gonna 

Jennifer Taylor: happen. Yeah. I'm like, do I ask f- uh, for a suggestion to end it? 

BAIRD BAIRD: What about- Or should we just go- And this coming, this is coming from me ... we just decide ... not him. What about a song, something to bring through maybe like clarity?

Because I literally feel like Samael walked into the room and just dropped a bag of [00:36:00] flour, and it's everywhere in 90 different directions. To be like, what do you want us to... What is the first thing you want us to take away from this today? 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. 

BAIRD BAIRD: What... Like we understand that we need to start looking at patterns around us, not just beings around us, but the energy and records of place, and that sometimes the currents that we're in are best abandoned rather than fought and that it's gonna take us time to know and understand those things.

But maybe he can, maybe he'll be able to give us, I don't know, a little something else. I did find it interesting, one other quick thing before you sing- There was a phrase he said, how aspects are often the blended energy of companions[00:37:00]

I thought that was neat because- Yes ... he has talked about you and I spend time together, I carry around some of your energy, you carry around some of mine. I spend time with Samael, I carry around some of his energy, he's got a little bit of mine, right? That perhaps this concept of aspects has more to do with us sensing the energy, a strong connection between beings rather- 

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah.

This really makes me think... Remember before we got on, I was talking about having a question about They're different beings being different emanations of the same overall energy. And that made me-- when you said that, I was thinking that it, it felt like it tied into, is, um, you know, [00:38:00] is the lioness of God a higher emanation of Sekhmet?

Is Ariel a higher emanation of the lioness of God, who is a higher emanation of Sekhmet? Or, and I mean higher not in hierarchical, but higher as in closer to source. closer to the all, the quote-unquote, "lower aspects" they're easier for us to identify with because their vibration is a little bit lower and it's easier- Yes

for us to relate to them. And as you get used to relating to them, then you sort of open up like an aspect of them that is closer to the all that you can then learn to relate to that. So that's what I mean by higher emanation, not necessarily like, better or that kind of thing.

But that we often need something that is closer to our own earthly vibration, and that's why they might emanate that way. But then what he was just saying makes me wonder if they [00:39:00] just work in the same circle so much that they carry some of each other's energy, and that's why they get confused. 

BAIRD BAIRD: But it's interesting here, too, he just said," it is both," that sometimes what we are doing is we are sensing a, an influence or an energy between entities, but that when the divine speaks from the divine all, essentially they are all...

in between lives, you and I won't necessarily be aspects of each other, but I will carry what I learned from you in this life, and you will carry what you learned from me. And when we are returned to the all, we will be even closer So, and he just had me do-- draw this, basically an arrow going up and an arrow going down.[00:40:00]

If we're thinking of higher vibration, right, he says that a human vibration, not exactly in the middle, but somewhere in the middle, that there are extremes of high vibration and extremes of low vibration as well. So when an energy is more centered-- oh, is that why we need to aim for balance? 'Cause we're-- that a, a major extreme of either high or low can knock us sideways, and we might not be able to process it, that our energy is sort of somewhere, depending on who we are and the magic that we do, somewhere in kind of a nebulous cloud in the middle.

What? He says that's why if I start to get pulled too high, I don't feel right in my body, and some people, if they're not used to being around the [00:41:00] dead, if they get pulled too low, they don't feel right in their body. They feel sick. So he's saying that there are different vibrations with different entities, and they're not static.

They kind of morph and change over time based on the experiences and interactions that those entities have. So I have a core, I guess. What? like a central energy and consciousness that is my own, but it is affected more so perhaps because I am embodied. I am picking up on lots of energy from knowing you and knowing 

And knowing, that is going to affect my overall energy. So he's saying it is hard to draw a complete distinction between [00:42:00] this is just one entity, and this is just an other because they affect and learn from each other over time, and all of that learning goes back to a collective All that they are also a part of.

He said boundaries are more important for you because you are in a physical world composed of boundaries than they are to us.

I don't know if any of that just made any sense. 

Jennifer Taylor: I, I think it does. It's almost like rather than thinking of it as a vertical line with three circles maybe, like Sekhmet at the bottom, and then above that is the Lioness of God, and above that is Ariel, that it's more like a flower of life where- 

Speaker 4: Yes

Jennifer Taylor: they're all these things, but they're overlapping each other in so many different ways, [00:43:00] and they're learning from each other. And it, like, it's like a flower of life if they were all in the sphere form, and they're all sort of moving and changing and overlapping to where it's not like one clear line of one specific energy or entity, but there's so much overlap in the energies that they work with that naturally certain beings are gonna have similar energies that you feel because they've not only worked together, but they also work with the same overarching energy of grace or forgiveness or protection or truth or clarity or something like that.

BAIRD BAIRD: Okay. Hold on. I've got something coming through here.

Speaker 4: Oh

BAIRD BAIRD: Samael just said, "Different entities have different purposes. In example, [00:44:00] I am a fallen. My purpose at this time is to teach. But Michael, my brother, is at all times in my heart and sustains me." So Samael and Michael have different purposes right now, right? Michael's out there cutting open gates and, you know, doing Michael's thing, and Samael is doing Samael's thing.

But Samael and Michael have so much influence on each other that if you were to look into Samael's soul, he has crafted so much of it around the love of his brother that he carries Michael's energy with him wherever he goes. And it will be hard for us to pick apart where Michael stops and where Samael begins if we were to look somehow at the energy of which he is composed at times [00:45:00] because of the love he carries for his brother.

Similarly, Samael has a great and deep and everlasting love of Lilith. But Lilith brings a human energy and understanding that he might not have been able to fathom before the advent of her in his existence. And so Lilith and his exposure to her energy may have made him more understanding of what it is to be human, which might make him a better teacher of us humans and a better guide.

Where exactly does Lilith's influence stop in his form? Well, he doesn't really have concrete physical form, so this is going to be hard to tell. But what we do know [00:46:00] is that his love for her has changed him

So I'm guessing that when you have two entities that appear to be aspects ... Like, it's interesting Jennifer Jurlando says she understands Azrael to be an aspect of Samael. I'm sure there's a relationship there, although he never speaks about it. Are we simply understanding Samael through an Azrael lens?

Is Azrael a completely separate being, but they both have similar purposes, and so their energy is extremely similar in some ways? And I guess the other question a- about this is, does it matter if they are always growing and changing in the all just as we are, exactly where [00:47:00] the line is? I can't pick out exactly where my love for you stops and starts, my friend But I do know that you are now of me and I am of you, yet we remain separate and together 

Jennifer Taylor: That is really beautiful.

And Yeah, it, it makes a lot of sense. And I wonder too, you know, if our individual understandings of the different, you know, entities and things that we work with has a lot to do with how is it that we are most likely to be able to have the most resonance with a message. Yes. You know? And so our individual understanding is, shaped by the way that they show up [00:48:00] for us based on where is our energy, where is our vibration, what's least likely to throw us off of our energy based on where we are, and what aspect of that and what image of that...

You know, 'cause I... You know, sometime- we talked about how, like, my experience of Samael is very much kind of filtered through Michael's. And so I feel Samael differently than you feel Samael- 

Speaker 4: Yes ... 

Jennifer Taylor: because Michael is so close and always around me that I'm never not feeling Michael's energy, so I'm feeling m- Samael through that.

And so if I didn't know that, I might think that Samael was a different aspect of- 

BAIRD BAIRD: Yes ... 

Jennifer Taylor: you know, of, Michael. you know, depending on the version that's most resonant with us, then we may get other beings that are coming through [00:49:00] or feel that piece of the energy that they carry of others.

And then, you know, in our humanness we try to put everything into boxes and go, "Are you this or that? Are you this or that?" And they're all a part of the All and It's really probably just more a matter of how much of each thing are they carrying as opposed to this versus that one.

BAIRD BAIRD: And what are we ready to let in, there... And, and we do see all of the entities through a lens of our own culture and our own experience. So you might have somebody who says, "I'm much more comfortable communicating with this particular energy. You know, this is what can be in symbiosis with my energy at this moment."

Jennifer Taylor: Yeah. 

BAIRD BAIRD: But then as my understanding deepens, that expands, right? Samael just said, "Where are the boundaries of love? Where does my love for you [00:50:00] start and your love for me end?" Beauty starts when the line falls away. And remember that in all things our purpose is union

Jennifer Taylor: I love it

Thank you for bringing that through. That is- 

BAIRD BAIRD: Absolutely ... 

Jennifer Taylor: really beautiful and really, really helpful. it completely reframes everything. 

BAIRD BAIRD: Yeah. We do, we have a human desire to say, "I'm talking to X from X culture from this stuff," but the, the lines are actually a lot more blurry than that. And it reminds me of, you know, when you really love someone, when you are holding a little child or you are holding hands or [00:51:00] embracing someone who is important to you, it is shockingly awe-inspiring thing when you get to the place where you cannot tell where they stop and you begin, right?

And that's an incredible thing to achieve in a body. But there are times when you're falling asleep tangled up in another being that you love, where you can't quite be sure whose arm is the one you're lying on right now, and that's a little bit of being in the all. That's a little bit of divinity, or as they might say, a little slice of heaven.

Jennifer Taylor: Absolutely. 

All right. I will bring through a song and- 

BAIRD BAIRD: Thank you

Jennifer Taylor: [00:52:00] [00:53:00] [00:54:00] [00:55:00]

BAIRD BAIRD: That's lovely

Have a little something to go with it from Samael

"Love A simple word for a state beyond words. [00:56:00] To love on this earth is to aid in the existence of another as they search for their own nature once again. And in that search, divine pattern is discovered. Let us return to the garden. Let us contemplate the planting of the tree. It was done, my friends, perhaps not for the humans so much as for the tree, as a model of what they might do, that they might love another being so foreign from themselves by covering its offspring with soil so that it might grow.

A sign of respect, an act of symbiosis, and of curiosity. [00:57:00] And the tree brought forth knowledge in return, the knowledge of nourishment and growth and stability, of comfort and companionship, and how they might be drawn from an entity with a foreign body. And now it is said that to eat from that tree, to accept an energy in return for a kindness, is forbidden.

Do not believe it. Plant, friends, and eat of the tree." It is worth noting that some of our very old texts say that Samael was the one who planted the tree in the Garden of Eden. And I find this interesting in that instead of just thinking we have this forbidden tree, [00:58:00] we think about what the lesson might have been in planting it in the first place

Jennifer Taylor: That's really amazing 

BAIRD BAIRD: Go out and get yourself some fruit, guys. And thank you so much for joining us today 

Jennifer Taylor: Yes 

BAIRD BAIRD: Thank you for bringing through everything you brought through, Jenn. It was a gift, and one sorely needed after so long away 

Jennifer Taylor: Oh, and right back to you. I am really honored to have gotten to hear all of those words and all that you brought through, and just to get to spend time with you again 

BAIRD BAIRD: It is a good thing.

Our energies merge and grow Mm-hmm And there are no limits of love. Until next time, folks, stay safe, stay well, and know that we are with you